Discreet vs Concealed Carry

[Shooting Padre]

I suspect if we did some research, we would find that 80 out of 100 wouldn't even notice the gun, 10 wouldn't care one way or another, 8 would be alarmed but would go on with life and 2 would have a hissy fit and go into "activist" mode and get OC outlawed.

The moral of the story? Two percent of the population is running the country!

Hear, Hear!!!

 

[5BeansintheWheel]

I thought you were gonna say 2% are members here!

 

[blujax01]

Simple answer. When in New Orleans, you are in a different world. You are in areas where tourist frequent and in a city where laws are different. I compare New Orleans to be a different country.

...

NOT TRUE.

Office of the Attorney General
State of LOUISIANA

Opinion No. 78‑795
June 19, 1978

FIREARMS & FIREWORKS 47‑A R.S. 14:95.1, 40:1379.1 Acts 1956, No. 345, s 1,
1958, No. 2 1958, No. 379, ss 1, 3, 1968, No. 647, s 1, 1975, No. 492
The carrying of an exposed handgun is not illegal, except as provided in LSA‑
R.S. 14:94.1. Parishes and/or Municipalities may not enact ordinances
regulating the carrying of illegal handguns because the state has pre‑empted
the legistlative control and has implicitly authorized the carrying of
unconcealed weapons."

 

[REM 3200]

NOT TRUE.

Office of the Attorney General
State of LOUISIANA

Opinion No. 78‑795
June 19, 1978

FIREARMS & FIREWORKS 47‑A R.S. 14:95.1, 40:1379.1 Acts 1956, No. 345, s 1,
1958, No. 2 1958, No. 379, ss 1, 3, 1968, No. 647, s 1, 1975, No. 492
The carrying of an exposed handgun is not illegal, except as provided in LSA‑
R.S. 14:94.1. Parishes and/or Municipalities may not enact ordinances
regulating the carrying of illegal handguns because the state has pre‑empted
the legistlative control and has implicitly authorized the carrying of
unconcealed weapons."

I suggest you come down to NOLA from C-bus, whereever that is, and try it.

 

[blujax01]

I suggest you come down to NOLA from C-bus, whereever that is, and try it.

No thanks, not a fan of open carry.

 

[oldman45]

NOT TRUE.

Office of the Attorney General
State of LOUISIANA

Opinion No. 78‑795
June 19, 1978

FIREARMS & FIREWORKS 47‑A R.S. 14:95.1, 40:1379.1 Acts 1956, No. 345, s 1,
1958, No. 2 1958, No. 379, ss 1, 3, 1968, No. 647, s 1, 1975, No. 492
The carrying of an exposed handgun is not illegal, except as provided in LSA‑
R.S. 14:94.1. Parishes and/or Municipalities may not enact ordinances
regulating the carrying of illegal handguns because the state has pre‑empted
the legistlative control and has implicitly authorized the carrying of
unconcealed weapons."

OK, come on down and watch what happens to those in New Orleans that tries open carry. It is a different world there. I have lived there and worked there. Even getting stopped while CC will not be met with favor by most of those stopping you.

Since you do not believe in OC, come down and CC. Then let one see you printing or showing. You may not go to jail but you will not be given a lot of respect either and will spend a lot of time answering questions on the side of the road.

Go to one of the suburbs and it is much different than the NO proper.

I compare NO to NYC. Either is totally different from the rest of the state. Both are filled with liberals and run by liberal, anti gun politicians.

When Katrina struck, guns were confiscated and many were never returned to their owners even though the courts ruled they had to be. While some still deny it, door to door searches were made and guns removed from the homes. Last I heard, that was not allowed but it happened in NO.

 

[The Big D]

I've CCW'd on numerous occasions in NOLA. Then it was with a medium frame 9mm. Never approached by a LEO(s)...no worries.

Yes, it was in the French Quarter and in Superdome. No screening at Superdome then.

Be safe.

 

[NE450No2]

The only time I open carry is when I am hunting.

And even if on public land I carry concealed.

I would Never open carry in the city.

If concealed carry is a legal option, i just do not see the reason for Open Carry...

Why let the bad people know you are packing???

 

[blujax01]

OK, come on down and watch what happens to those in New Orleans that tries open carry. It is a different world there. I have lived there and worked there. Even getting stopped while CC will not be met with favor by most of those stopping you.

Since you do not believe in OC, come down and CC. Then let one see you printing or showing. You may not go to jail but you will not be given a lot of respect either and will spend a lot of time answering questions on the side of the road.

Go to one of the suburbs and it is much different than the NO proper.

I compare NO to NYC. Either is totally different from the rest of the state. Both are filled with liberals and run by liberal, anti gun politicians.

When Katrina struck, guns were confiscated and many were never returned to their owners even though the courts ruled they had to be. While some still deny it, door to door searches were made and guns removed from the homes. Last I heard, that was not allowed but it happened in NO.

Oldman in post #92 you state:
"Steve, we have had OC in Louisiana so long that we do not remember when it was written into the law. Nobody pays it any attention. I may notice 2-3 a day doing OC."
Then when someone points out that they have never seen OC in New Orleans, in post #97 you say "When in New Orleans, you are in a different world. You are in areas where tourist frequent and in a city where laws are different."

I found the statute showing that is not a true statement.

In previous threads you have explained in great detail that if you pulled someone over who identified themselves as CC, you would confiscate their firearm and give it back once you determined they were really allowed to have it. Seems that on your State, I'll be answering a lot of questions by the side of the road no matter where I am ...

 

[oldman45]

The only time I open carry is when I am hunting.

And even if on public land I carry concealed.

I would Never open carry in the city.

If concealed carry is a legal option, i just do not see the reason for Open Carry...

Why let the bad people know you are packing???

OC is cheaper than CC and a lot easier on clothing.

If OC is legal, why not?

Now as to letting the bad guy know you are armed, if a bad guy has the drop on you, it is too late to go for your gun. Consider it to be the property of the bad guy, taken at a reduced cost.

Now let's do an exercise that can done in your easy chair. OK, you are the bad guy. Are you going after someone that you know is carrying or will you go on to someone else that may be an easier victim? Will you, as a badguy, go in to rob a place when there are known guns present or will you go some place much safer? Exercise over, you can return to being a good guy again. BTW: A man robbed a fast food place here recently. He made a mistake in leaving his fingerprints and was arrested. He said he intended to rob another business but there was an officer there wearing a gun. The fact is it does not matter who is wearing a gun, it only matters they know the gun is there.

Bad guys do not rob police stations, armories or places where armed people are present. They go to schools, churches, restaurants & bars where guns are forbidden and other such places. Bad guys do not rob homes where they know they will likely be confronted. They rob the elderly that is less likely to be armed. Just common sense. Only the most stupid will bother an armed person.

 

[Shooting Padre]

OC is cheaper than CC and a lot easier on clothing.

If OC is legal, why not?

Now as to letting the bad guy know you are armed, if a bad guy has the drop on you, it is too late to go for your gun. Consider it to be the property of the bad guy, taken at a reduced cost.

Now let's do an exercise that can done in your easy chair. OK, you are the bad guy. Are you going after someone that you know is carrying or will you go on to someone else that may be an easier victim? Will you, as a badguy, go in to rob a place when there are known guns present or will you go some place much safer? Exercise over, you can return to being a good guy again. BTW: A man robbed a fast food place here recently. He made a mistake in leaving his fingerprints and was arrested. He said he intended to rob another business but there was an officer there wearing a gun. The fact is it does not matter who is wearing a gun, it only matters they know the gun is there.

Bad guys do not rob police stations, armories or places where armed people are present. They go to schools, churches, restaurants & bars where guns are forbidden and other such places. Bad guys do not rob homes where they know they will likely be confronted. They rob the elderly that is less likely to be armed. Just common sense. Only the most stupid will bother an armed person.

An officer needs to wear his weapon where he can get to it fast, as this is his job, to be the first line of defense or action. It is a symbol of his authority under the law. My job is not to take his place. Although I have a right to defend myself and others, I am not the ordained authority by law. By openly carrying I may make myself the first target, if the bag guy chooses to shoot. By even drawing my weapon in certain instances, I may provoke a bad guy to begin shooting rather than prevent it.
Second, the reason schools, churches and certain other establishments are targeted, is because the law has prohibited arms in those places. The bad guys need to know there are armed people in those places, not particularly who they are. I am not against open carry, but there are considerations to be made on how and where and when. MHO.

 

[oldman45]

An officer needs to wear his weapon where he can get to it fast, as this is his job, to be the first line of defense or action. It is a symbol of his authority under the law. My job is not to take his place. Although I have a right to defend myself and others, I am not the ordained authority by law. By openly carrying I may make myself the first target, if the bag guy chooses to shoot. By even drawing my weapon in certain instances, I may provoke a bad guy to begin shooting rather than prevent it.
Second, the reason schools, churches and certain other establishments are targeted, is because the law has prohibited arms in those places. The bad guys need to know there are armed people in those places, not particularly who they are. I am not against open carry, but there are considerations to be made on how and where and when. MHO.

Can you provide me a single example where a person was shot because he openly carried a gun? There are examples where someone did not commit a crime because someone in the immediate area was visibly armed.

We can come up with many reasons not to carry in any form if we try. As with the gentleman that bought a gun but was not familar with guns and then openly carried it until he was robbed and the gun taken, it was a one off event.

I still maintain that even a mentally challenged crack head would not go after a person openly carrying. I maintain that if everyone carried openly, we would have less crime.

Consider that bad guys carry concealed. Those that openly carry does not need to hide the fact they are armed.

Saying that carrying openly would relate to being an officer of the law is a weak comparision. I own several water hoses but that does not make my neighbors think I am a fireman.

 

[celticfisherman]

Can you provide me a single example where a person was shot because he openly carried a gun? There are examples where someone did not commit a crime because someone in the immediate area was visibly armed.

We can come up with many reasons not to carry in any form if we try. As with the gentleman that bought a gun but was not familar with guns and then openly carried it until he was robbed and the gun taken, it was a one off event.

I still maintain that even a mentally challenged crack head would not go after a person openly carrying. I maintain that if everyone carried openly, we would have less crime.

Consider that bad guys carry concealed. Those that openly carry does not need to hide the fact they are armed.

Saying that carrying openly would relate to being an officer of the law is a weak comparision. I own several water hoses but that does not make my neighbors think I am a fireman.

Good analogies.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

When Katrina struck, guns were confiscated and many were never returned to their owners even though the courts ruled they had to be. While some still deny it, door to door searches were made and guns removed from the homes. Last I heard, that was not allowed but it happened in NO.

I would like to point out that we've had disagreements in the past about surrendering a sidearm during a traffic stop. This is why I will not surrender my sidearm even to the police. Disarming a sane, felony-free man is wrong and unconstitutional whether it's for ten minutes or ten years.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Can you provide me a single example where a person was shot because he openly carried a gun? There are examples where someone did not commit a crime because someone in the immediate area was visibly armed.

We can come up with many reasons not to carry in any form if we try. As with the gentleman that bought a gun but was not familar with guns and then openly carried it until he was robbed and the gun taken, it was a one off event.

I still maintain that even a mentally challenged crack head would not go after a person openly carrying. I maintain that if everyone carried openly, we would have less crime.

Consider that bad guys carry concealed. Those that openly carry does not need to hide the fact they are armed.

Saying that carrying openly would relate to being an officer of the law is a weak comparision. I own several water hoses but that does not make my neighbors think I am a fireman.

Your argument is logical, that's the problem. The anti-gun crowd don't understand logic. When I carry, which isn't much anymore as it is illegal on campus(I don't keep my weapon here, but I leave my .45 with family in a small town nearby so I can still do some weekend shooting), I choose the discreet method. I believe in the right to bear arms and am willing to defend it, but I'd rather not have to deal with the panic that issues when one walks into a restaurant with a visible handgun. As I said, I like the discreet method over concealed as well, a hip holster with a jacket or an open button-up suffices. I do agree that printing when concealed ends up worse sometimes than open would have. Such as the case when My friend's little sister caught a glimpse of my .45 when it was in an iwb holster. The "Oh my God he has a gun situation" occurred. The back tuck made me appear more like a criminal than if I would have simply had it in the above mentioned carrying style

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Another aspect of OC concerns your appearance, that is if a criminal sees you with a gun you had better imply that you have the ability and would not hesitate to use it if necessary. I would bet that the person who had his gun stolen from him (a very rare case) had "victim" written all over him. Even Barney Fife carried a gun (and one bullet) but even when he loaded his revolver no-one took him seriously. If you OC you need to be taken seriously, otherwise consider CC.

 

[oldman45]

I would like to point out that we've had disagreements in the past about surrendering a sidearm during a traffic stop. This is why I will not surrender my sidearm even to the police. Disarming a sane, felony-free man is wrong and unconstitutional whether it's for ten minutes or ten years.

I would prefer to say we just have a difference in opinion on some things.

But if someone continues to retain their firearm when it has been requested to turn it over momentarily to a LEO is asking to be shot. Not only is doing so against the law but also possibly fatal. The officer will take cover and call for backup. Once you are surrounded by several people pointing guns at you, I would think good sense would prevail and you would turn the firearm over the the officers. Most likely, you would not be concerned in the future with carrying in any form as you possibly would have a criminal record.

Here is the exact wording of the law:

Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1.Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;

2.Submit to a pat down;

3.Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

 

[oldman45]

Another aspect of OC concerns your appearance, that is if a criminal sees you with a gun you had better imply that you have the ability and would not hesitate to use it if necessary. I would bet that the person who had his gun stolen from him (a very rare case) had "victim" written all over him. Even Barney Fife carried a gun (and one bullet) but even when he loaded his revolver no-one took him seriously. If you OC you need to be taken seriously, otherwise consider CC.

What is the old saying, "Beware of the man that only has one gun. He likely knows how to use it."

Surely there are people that carry that should not even own a gun. Most that carry seldom even practice with their gun but know pretty well how to use it. Then there are a few, like many here, that own guns, practice often and are very proficient with them. I would not want to take a chance that someone openly carrying does not know how to use it.

 

[redlevel]

Here is the exact wording of the law:

Duties of Permittees
The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer. Anyone who fails to do so shall be fined not more than one hundred dollars. Additionally, when any peace officer approaches a permittee in an official manner or with an identified purpose, the permittee shall:

1.Notify the officer that he has a weapon on his person;

2.Submit to a pat down;

3.Allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

Thank God that isn't the law in Georgia. An officer must have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that a crime has been permitted, is in the act of being committed, or is about to be committed to conduct a search.
State v. Jones (be careful about "standard procedure" ) [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

If Louisiana law allows a pat down based on the possession of a carry permit, how does that not violate the ruling in Terry v. Ohio?

Can you provide a link to the statute you have quoted?

 

[oldman45]

Thank God that isn't the law in Georgia. An officer must have Reasonable Articulable Suspicion that a crime has been permitted, is in the act of being committed, or is about to be committed to conduct a search.
State v. Jones (be careful about "standard procedure" ) [Archive] - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

If Louisiana law allows a pat down based on the possession of a carry permit, how does that not violate the ruling in Terry v. Ohio?

Can you provide a link to the statute you have quoted?

Sure; just go to Louisiana State Police

Read the Duty of Permittees. This is the LA State Police site and they oversee the permits and rules.

I will also say that Clay Revis is the head of that section and he is pro gun but those in power at the LSP is anti gun. They make getting a permit very difficult and keeping it is also difficult. I get the stats on the permits. A large portion is suspended each year for minor things like not notifying the LSP of an address change. They also require a lot of information that is really none of their business and having nothing to do with being able to own or carry guns. A friend of mine had to furnish copies of her divorce papers from a divorce 19 yrs ago. They also require a copy of court document for each arrest. Not a conviction but just an arrest. If charges were dropped, then all kinds of paperwork is required.

If you have a CCW from LA, then you cannot enter a residence while armed without getting permission from the residents to do so. If you are carrying openly, no permission is required.