+p+.38 spl

[zellerSC]

I recently rec'd about 40 of these, no box, in a trade and it does have WCC and 88, 1988 I presume.

Are these for LE only or can civilians use them? If I did fire them, I'd use only my 28-2, 686 or Ruger Security 6. Which I think they'd be OK since they're .357's.

Thanks.

 

[Steve C]

Law enforcement ammo but there's no restriction on civilian ownership or use. The heavier loading is sold to law enforcement only by the factory at the request of the agencies. Too many variables in weapon type, condition in civilian hands and owner common sense for them to sell to the general public. Perfectly safe in .357 mag revolvers and for limited use in +p rated .38's in good mechanical condition.

 

[allglock]

I have shot it in newer, all steel J frames such as my 640 (38 sp.), and a model 60 (38 sp.) with no ill effects. It is a flame thrower though!

 

[zellerSC]

Great...thanks fellas.

I'd much rather have that go off in a HD situation vs .357 mag.

 

[Texas Star]

A couple of S&W reps cautioned me against using it. There are no real specs, other than what was set by the agency ordering it, so you don't know what's in it, and they said that it caused as much or more damage to K-frame .357's as did hot Magnum loads.

I wouldn't buy any. I think most agencies used it in .357's, to issue hot rounds while being able to tell the media and certain "communities" that they were using .38 ammo.

Civilians don't have that "need", so I just load .357's if I want that level of power. I don't want to crack the forcing cone on my M-66-3. If I had to fire any, I'd do it in my GP-100. And not much of it.

 

[Texas Star]

Great...thanks fellas.

I'd much rather have that go off in a HD situation vs .357 mag.

Maybe not: either may damage your hearing. I use normal Plus P, and think it'll suffice, if well chosen and well placed.

I've been present twice without hearing protection when a .45 ACP was fired indoors, once to kill a badger. That was as loud as I want to experience. I'm pretty sure that Magnum revolvers loads are louder.

 

[chief38]

My Dad left me a few boxes of both the Federal and Winchester "Treasury Loads". I have fired a few but was not overly impressed because of the light bullet weight, muzzle flash and lack of accuracy out of my 3" M65. I guess you have to remember when that stuff came onto the scene (early 70's I believe) and maybe for that period of time it was thought to be superior ammunition, but compared to today's loads like Buffalo Bore, Speer Gold Dot, etc. the "Treasury Loads" are little more than a collectible IMHO. Without trying to start an argument here, I have always liked heavier bullets in 38/357 ammunition and other than specific situations like maybe inside a fuselage of an airplane or similar, I see little use for such light weight bullets in a .38 Special. YMMV.

Chief38

 

[Packard]

+P+ is not an official SAAMI spec. With standard pressure and +P pressure you know exactly what you are getting (both are covered by SAAMI specs). With +P+ the ammo maker is the only one that knows the pressure. So make sure it is a reputable company that made the ammo.

NOTE: Only .38s and 9mm ammo are rated as +P according to the SAAMI specs. Any other round that carries a +P designation is a rogue round. So take care.

 

[zellerSC]

Well, not sure now what to do with the 40 rds.

I can't imagine them damaging a 28 or even a L frame....they're still not .357's.

 

[ddixie884]

I don't think any major manufacturer loaded .38spls that will damage a .357 mag.................

 

[chief38]

No worry, you can shoot anything that will fit into the chambers of your N frame with confidence, factory ammo that is......

 

[elm_creek_smith]

The "Treasury Loads" are effectively light bullet .357 Magnum rounds loaded in .38 Special cases. Your N-frame, L-frame, or the GP-100 Rugers will not suffer any ill effects from firing them.

ECS

 

[jp zanoya]

"NOTE: Only .38s and 9mm ammo are rated as +P according to the SAAMI specs. Any other round that carries a +P designation is a rogue round. So take care. "
I have a box of factory loaded .45ACP from Remington marke "+P". I purchased it about 25 years ago.

 

[allglock]

Here are my two dedicated +P+ guns. A 640-2 in 38sp. and a 60-12 in 38sp. Both are pre lock and I have had no issues with +P+.

 

[stiab]

The "Treasury Loads" are effectively light bullet .357 Magnum rounds loaded in .38 Special cases.

I respectfully disagree with that part of your statement, although I agree that they will not hurt the .357, or most .38 Special American made revolvers. I have chronographed actual 110 grain Treasury loads that were issued to me, and they averaged only 1077 fps in a 4" Model 15, while same vintage Super Vel averaged 1221 fps. Another tester who posts on this forum had almost the identical results when he chronographed the 110 grain Treasury load.

The Federal +P+ 147 grain .38 Special load was US Treasury issued ammo when the backup guns were J frame 640 no dash, and remained the same when the backup became the 640-1. As you probably know, the 640 no dash was not built on the magnum J frame.

 

[Fkimble]

Not sure why you think that is +p+ ammo. WWC 1988 is military ammo. Probably not even +p.

 

[auburn2]

FWIW the Smith and Wesson manual for my 686 says .38 spl +p+ load could damage the gun. It says to use .38 special, .38 special +p or .357 Magnum only and says specifically that other loads including .38 special +p+ can damage the gun.

My guess is this is S&W covering their butt since there is no standardized +p+ load.

 

[Dump1567]

Unless I buy something new from a shop in the original box, I don't shoot it through any of my guns.

My rule #1 for ammo. "don't shoot mystery ammo". Don't know where it came from, who loaded it, is it even factory loaded, etc.? I've seen plenty of mystery reloads with the same factory head stamp placed back in the original box. The $15.00 I save isn't worth my life or the gun I might blow-up.
Just my 2 cents.

I would save it for the zombies.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

STAIB: I respectfully disagree with that part of your statement, although I agree that they will not hurt the .357, or most .38 Special American made revolvers. I have chronographed actual 110 grain Treasury loads that were issued to me, and they averaged only 1077 fps in a 4" Model 15, while same vintage Super Vel averaged 1221 fps. Another tester who posts on this forum had almost the identical results when he chronographed the 110 grain Treasury load.

As I recall, the Super Vel loads were pretty doggoned hot, too!

The Federal +P+ 147 grain .38 Special load was US Treasury issued ammo when the backup guns were J frame 640 no dash, and remained the same when the backup became the 640-1. As you probably know, the 640 no dash was not built on the magnum J frame.

Okay, that one I didn't know about. In the days when I was "pushing the envelope" with .38 loads all I knew about was the 110 grain load. In fact, I still have about a dozen of them from my last box.

No offense was taken; hope none was given.

ECS

 

[zellerSC]

Not sure why you think that is +p+ ammo. WWC 1988 is military ammo. Probably not even +p.

Not sure if you're replying to me or not, but I'll assume so.

It's stamped +p+, thus I conclude it's +p+. I can only go by what I see.