3913 closing issue

10 X

Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
129
Reaction score
4
I just bought a 3913 with supposedly 200 rounds through it.
When hand cycling ammo through it, it really closes hard. The resistance is when the base of the shell contacts the extractor. The knife edge of the extractor is digging into the grove of the shell and the spring is very, very stiff. The extractor moves fully. Wolff says the spring is 6 lb. standard, but wow what a stiff 6 lbs. The resistance is such that the recoil spring won't bring the slide fully closed without help when slow hand cycling. Sling shot will close it fully. I have never seen such resistance with a Smith.

I am thinking that I need to get the small files out and trim the extractor.
I will also get new Wolff springs for the extractor and a heavier recoil spring.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
Try this first, lock slide back, insert loaded magazine, release slide. Do not follow slide with your hand let it fly. An automatic pistol is not meant to be "slow hand cycled" the parts are supposed to function with a certain degree of authority.
 
Last edited:
Mack, rightly or wrongly, I call that sling shot. Yes it will close then with a snap when the shell is forced up. It is a lot more resistance than I am used to. With my other 3rd Gen Smith, I cannot even feel the shell being chambered.
 
I fired my 3913 for the first time today. It repeatedly failed to chamber all the way with different loads. A nudge at the back of the slide pushed it into battery but it seemed to stop when the round was trying to slide up under the extractor. Any advice for me?
 
"Closing" issues, when hand-cycling rounds in the gun? Really?

Some thoughts ...

Don't use live rounds for bench checks. Use properly sized Dummy rounds.

Dummy rounds not only help prevent a potential "mistake" (negligent discharge), but prevent unnecessary damage to live ammunition which could compromise functioning at the least (case rim damage, extraction& feeding failures, etc), and may create the potential for what's sometimes called an "over-pressure event" due to bullet setback (think catastrophic failure that could damage the gun and/or injure the shooter - perhaps seriously or even fatally).

Don't compare how a particular pistol may feel when "slowly hand-cycling it". It's intended to work that way. It's intended to operate normally when being fired.

Don't compare how a compact pistol with a slightly shorter slide & barrel may function, mechanically, from a perspective of "leverage" while cycling, to a slightly larger version (even by only half an inch).

Don't start taking files to extractors. Really. This isn't a 1911. The hooks aren't filed, stoned or otherwise "adjusted" by technicians or armorers when being installed in guns. (They've been revised a bit over the years to offer optimal feeding, using a wider range of commercial ammo, though.)

The only filing that typically needs to be done is on the adjustment pad (and this filing work is checked by use of a Go/No-Go bar gauge, not Dummy rounds, shaking the slide, etc). There's a rare exception involving some extractor tails in some of the oldest 3rd guns, maybe, but I've never talked to another armorer that ever ran into such a gun/extractor combination. It's just been mentioned in passing during some earlier armorer classes. Not the hooks, but a spot on the tails.

Don't start changing extractor springs unless you know what you're doing, meaning you have the knowledge, training & experience ... and you have actual reason to do so. FWIW, just because one aftermarket spring maker may measure the tension of their springs using one method, applying a "weight rating", that doesn't mean that's how S&W applies ratings to their springs (also supplied by a vendor).

S&W has a recommended tension "weight" measurement for checking the tension of the pivoting extractors used in their 3rd gen guns. The "weight measurement" they use is checked with a force dial gauge, checking for a reading at the first sign of deflection of the extractor when placed under load (using the tool they sell to armorers). The recommended spring tension can vary within an expected range, and some optional springs are available to armorers to help get any particular pistol within the normally recommended range. This can allow a repair tech, gunsmith or armorer to resolve some issues that might occur with a particular pistol (meaning tolerance stack among various parts in a specific gun), and taking into consideration the influences presented by any particular shooter and ammunition combination.

A spring which provides too much tension may cause feeding problems, and one which is too light may cause extraction problems.

Older slides had their extractor spring holes machined by equipment controlled by an operator, unlike the newer CNC equipment (which can also be self-regulating in identifying a dulling cutter, whereas the older equipment relied on the operator being aware of things). That may result in some extractor spring holes varying a bit in dimensions, such as depth of the hole and/or the shape at the bottom (which can change the "tension" of a spring if it has to be compressed more in one slide than is typically expected).

Of course, even the newer TSW guns, built on the latest CNC equipment, may have the occasional manufacturing hiccup occur. We had a TSW slide (a .40 gun) that just wouldn't give enough tension for the extractor spring, checking it with the dial gauge, when the standard production spring was used, even when a couple of those springs were tried. Failures-to-extract occurred (which is the reason it came to my attention in the first place), and the spring tension fell below the minimum recommended reading for the different "standard" springs.

I ended up having to use one of the heavier optional springs to resolve the issue. The heavier spring resulted in a reading which fell within the normal tension (weight) range, and the gun fed, fired, extracted & ejected as intended afterward. problem solved. The extractor had been fitted just fine, but the "problem" was caused by an extractor spring which gave insufficient tension in that gun.

I've previously run heavier recoil springs in 3913/6906's. Some thousands of rounds to see how things ran using heavier springs. I no longer do so. Many more thousands of rounds using factory springs have given me enough reason to stay with the standard rated recoil springs sold by the factory (very affordably, I might add). I use the standard factory recoil springs. Ditto mag springs in the single column 39XX guns.

When you start changing the springs the engineers designed to be used in the guns ... and especially when you think about breaking out files to "fix" something ... you may risk experiencing less-than-optimal functioning & operation.

No reason to "fix something until it's broken". Really.

If you do something to ruin how the gun works, meaning how it's supposed to work (not just according to something you may like to feel is normal) you'll have to pay either a gunsmith or a factory tech to repair your "fix". That doesn't take into consideration the potential for frustration, as well as what might happen if the gun actually doesn't safely work as designed when you're shooting it at the range, or may desperately need it for a defensive situation.

Presuming the 3913 is in normal operating condition (not visibly damaged), the recoil & magazine springs are in good condition (I'd replace both in any used 3rd gen gun I bought, myself, using factory springs as the replacements), and the gun is properly clean and lubricated ... I'd shoot the gun with fresh factory 9mm ammunition, made by one of the major American ammo companies ... and if it feeds & functions normally during live-fire, I'd leave well enough alone.

Just my thoughts. I'm an owner & shooter of a late production 3913, myself, as well as an armorer for 3rd gen S&W's (4 classes, meaning some recerts to keep current).

Congrats on finding a low-mileage 3913. Outstanding compact 9's. Easily among the best models S&W has ever produced, if not the best.
 
Last edited:
Feeding issues aside, I was very, very impressed with the 3913. Mine is incredibly accurate.

Hundgunner356, I have a new spring kit from Wolff on the way. I'm going to replace the recoil spring and hammer spring with new factory rate springs and try again.
 
I fired my 3913 for the first time today. It repeatedly failed to chamber all the way with different loads. A nudge at the back of the slide pushed it into battery but it seemed to stop when the round was trying to slide up under the extractor. Any advice for me?

What ammunition were you using?

How old is the recoil spring?

How old are the mag springs?

How well was the pistol lubricated?

Is the barrel chamber clean? No bits of anything stuck to the chamber wall?

Has the extractor slot ever been exposed to a lot of liquid solvent or CLP so that it could run inside the recess (under the extractor) and accumulate debris, fouling, etc under the tail?

Typically, the common problems that can result in a failure of the slide to close into battery can involve a weakened or damaged recoil spring; a damaged or worn extractor; a heavy extractor spring (or an accumulation of gunk under the tail that would interfere with extractor spring compression, preventing the extractor's tail from pivoting inward far enough to allow normal feeding - case movement up the breech face).

Sure, insufficient lubrication and/or a dirty chamber (which may prevent full cartridge chambering) can sometimes be involved, as well as ammunition which might have dimensional/tolerance issues.

Nothing at all wrong with sticking to the stock, factory-provided springs in these compact guns. Their cost is pretty reasonable, too.

Just some thoughts to consider.
 
Thanks fastbolt. I can't answer most of those questions. It was a California DOC weapon I recently purchased. The ammo was my own reloads which are good quality and work great in my other weapons and ammo from Mountaineer Custom Cartridge which is a local manufacturer of high quality ammo. I did not clean or lube the weapon before shooting it. I'm going to clean, inspect and lube the weapon tonight. I'll post any findings.
 
Joninwv,
You can take the advice of fastbolt to the bank! Heed his advice and all will be well.
If you continue to have problems......Your 3913 is a 3rd gen gun and therefore has a lifetime warranty on it. Send it to S&W and let them take VERY good care of you.

Randy
 
Last night I gave my 3913 as good cleaning and lube. The extractor seems slightly stiffer then the extractor on my 5906. It also seems to move freely but I did spray some cleaner behind it to flush out anything that may be impeding it. I should get my new springs this week so I'll change them out and see how that goes. Does anyone know how difficult it is to change out a hammer spring? I know changing the extractor spring isn't recommended so I'll leave that one alone but I would like to change the recoil spring and hammer spring. If it doesn't work this time I'll probably just call up Novak's and drop it off for a reliability package.
 
I've never had to replace a factory mainspring (hammer) in a S&W 3rd gen because it was worn out. I helped support a few hundred early 3rd gen guns that were used out to 16-18+ years, too. I've seen extractor springs wear out by then, though.

Recoil springs? Yes. The factory tells LE armorers to replace recoil & mag springs either every 5 years or every 5,000 rounds (for duty guns that are left loaded). I'm a bit more conservative than that, replacing the recoil spring in my 3913 every 2,500 - 3,000 rounds. Then again, I shoot a lot of +P and +P+ loads (issued).
 
Good. I won't mess with the hammer spring then. I do think the extractor could use a very light breaking of the sharp edges and maybe a little bit of polishing. That in conjunction with a new recoil spring may hopefully take care of it.
 
I'd strongly resist the urge to "break the sharp edges" or "polish" a S&W pivoting 3rd gen extractor. Really.

That's just me, though.

You might bear in mind that replacing a 3rd gen extractor ... (if it's "improved" to the point if creates a problem where none previously actually existed) ... typically requires a trip back to the factory, an authorized repair center or a gunsmith familiar with the guns. It requires a bar gauge ($70 tool for Go/No-Go check of extractor hook reach) and a force dial gauge ($150 tool to check extractor spring tension range). Not exactly a "kitchen table gunsmithing" project.

Your call. Your gun. Your time & money.

This isn't a 1911, you know.
 
So be it. I'll do the prudent thing and go in stages. Recoil spring first. If there still seems to be a hangup it will get a trip to Novak's about an hour from here for a reliability package.

BTW, I sold a 1911 to buy the 3913. Thank God its no 1911.
 
I am bringing this thread up from the dead because I am having the exact same symptoms with a 3914LS. This is a gun that my GF recently purchased and she is very frustrated because she loves it and it just doesn't seem to want to work for her.

I have replaced the recoil spring with a new factory spring and I have also replaced all of the springs in the 5 magazines that came with the pistol.

The symptom is exactly as the original poster mentioned. During the last 1/4" is slide movement there is enough resistance from the round slipping under the extractor, that the slide fails to close.

I have taken everything apart to make sure that no gunk is causing the extractor to stick, but nothing seems to make any difference.

Frustrations abound.

Andrew
 
Ammo being used?

Grip support & stability? Does the gun do the same thing when you shoot it (instead of her)?
 
Last edited:
Ammo being used?

Grip support & stability? Does the gun do the same thing when you shoot it (instead of her)?

We have tried Federal American Eagle 115 grain FMJ and Aquila 124 grain FMJ. The ammo seems to make little difference.

The gun cycles fine when I shoot it, but it doesn't seem to work for her and her grip. She was taught to shoot with a relatively light grip, which thus far has not been a problem with her Beretta PX4 Storm.

This is after all a "Lady Smith" so presumably it should work for women that will tend to have a softer grip than men.

Thank you for your help.

Andrew
 
Dunno about the Aquila ammo. It's not uncommon for some of the 'budget' 115gr loads to be a bit on the lower end of the power range, though, which can contribute to the potential for grip stability issues to interfere with feeding and/or ejection. (Usually called limp-wristing, but it's not just a relaxed or 'broken' wrist which can fail to support the frame during recoil, as a grip which is too relaxed at the wrong moment can become problematic for some shooters).

I could see how being taught to shoot with a "light grip" could be problematic for some pistols.

The LadySmith 3913 looks "pretty", but it's not otherwise different when it comes to having to firmly support the frame during the critical moments of recoil so the slide can make its full run at the intended velocity.

Does it still have the factory delrin grip? if it does, you might consider trying the Hogue grips. That really seemed to help our smaller shooters of diminutive stature and somewhat lesser grip strength using 3913's.

Grip issues (either relaxed grip or an unlocked wrist) are weird, though. Some folks can't 'limp-wrist' a pistol regardless of how hard they try to do so, and others can do it at will ... and others only seem to experience it with an unpredictable range and selection of pistols.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top