What do you do?

[Steve in Vermont]

Stay out of it. There are too many things that can happen and most are not good.

It can become a hostage situation.
It can turn a robbery into a shooting.
It can get innocent people hurt.

There is no need to try being a hero. Be the best witness possible. Know the description, color & type shirt, what type pants, shoes, hair and anything else.

Let the police handle it.

The problem of permitees trying to become police comes up every now and then. For the most part, a permitee is allowed to carry for their personal safety and not that as a body guard for the public.

Just saying.

Good Advice. Many of you are speaking as if you are a LEO. If you are you have a legal obligation to get involved. If not, you're only obligation is to protect yourself (and family). Most robberies don't result in shots fired. The last thing anyone needs is some civilian starting a gunfight. And I can attest from experience that when bullets start to fly in situations like this they end up everywhere, in walls, ceilings, windows, but less often in the intended target.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

In addition to self defense, Tenn also has a Good Samaritan Protection Act. Tenn provides "Absolute Immunity" from civil liabilities as a result of any property damage or bodily injury, including death of the perp in such cases of Aggravated Robbery. Though, that does not include any innocent bystanders.

Whether or not I would engage the perp is a near impossible question to answer due to an endless list of potential variables. Now if he had just shot someone it would be difficult to not be compelled to engage.

---------------

A Forum member posted the following situation he was in. If he reads this I hope he will fill in the detail, but here is the gist of it.

He was picking up his daughter at a jewelry store when an armed perp came in to rob the place. The forum member usually carried but he didn't have his gun at that particular time, and did not take action. The robbery took place, no one was harmed and the perp was soon later apprehended by authorities. Perfect outcome for all. The underlying theme was... 'what if' he had been carrying? What would he have done? Would he and his daughter have left the store unharmed that evening?

All we can do is make our best judgement at the moment. Even with the best judgement among the most expert, there is still no way to know what the outcome will be, for better or not, until it's all over.... and then we still won't know 'what if'.

 

[Seneca]

Thanks to Oldman45 and Steve in Vermont. You guys are the reason every CPL holder in the nation should read this forum. Your advice is spot on and coming from the voice of experience.
I have never completely bought into the " ...sheep - wolf - me as the sheepdog... " concept that permeates many of the discussions amongst people who carry concealed. The scenario put forth by the OP is full of pitfalls for the non-LEO bystander with a concealed weapon and one must be able to process much information in one's brain in a few brief seconds before making any decisions as to how to react.
I carry, for protection of me and my family, for two reasons. One, I live next to and work in a very dangerous city ( Detroit ), and second, because I am to old, flabby, and weak to Kung Fu my way out of a hazardous situation. Although I certainly would not stand by and allow a massacre to happen in front of me, I am not a "sheepdog " to the world. My first reaction to this scenario would be, as stated so concisely by Oldman45, to " stay out of it".

 

[Kanewpadle]

In any situation such as this, you must decide where your "line in the sand" is and what your going to do if it's crossed.

I will help if and when I can but only on my terms and only when I decide. I'm not going to die or be crippled for life by defending a total stranger. Family and friends would be different. If that sounds selfish. Sorry, but I carry a gun to return to my family unharmed. That's my duty as a husband and father. And my obligations to them come before a total stranger.

Blindly intervening is foolish at best.

 

[Smokin' Iron]

Stay out of it. There are too many things that can happen and most are not good.

It can become a hostage situation.
It can turn a robbery into a shooting.
It can get innocent people hurt.

There is no need to try being a hero. Be the best witness possible. Know the description, color & type shirt, what type pants, shoes, hair and anything else.

Let the police handle it.

The problem of permitees trying to become police comes up every now and then. For the most part, a permitee is allowed to carry for their personal safety and not that as a body guard for the public.

Just saying.

Very good advise. In fact, this is what was taught in the CCW class I took to get my license.

You have the right to defend yourself if directly threatened. But starting a fire fight in a store full of people is a very bad idea.

 

[matt_641]

I have to agree with what most people are saying here. If it doesn't directly effect you, call the authorities and let them deal with the situation, seeing as how instigating can either cause more harm to others or yourself or (quite possible) make you look like the BG and be in more trouble than you bargained for.

 

[WIKD]

As others have stated there are too many "ifs" but if the situation presented itself and I was sure, or at least as sure as possible, that my involvement would help the situation and not endanger others then I would act. But thats just my nature. I carry around a scar on my left arm from a similar situation where a man was threatening a woman with a knife. I knew he was going to use it and was lucky enough to get between the woman and him at the right time. Knife ended up in my arm instead of her chest.

 

[J Rich]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Seems logical to just be a good witness, unless I'm directly threatened. Like I said here you have the right to defend a third party against someone who is committing a act of violence. But, once the BG leaves you can not chase the BG down. That would be bringing the fight to him.

I'm not trying to be "Johnny Lawman" or a "Hero". I will leave that to the professionals. I'm just asking the question to educate myself better. because first thought isn't always the best. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[J Rich]

As others have stated there are too many "ifs" but if the situation presented itself and I was sure, or at least as sure as possible, that my involvement would help the situation and not endanger others then I would act. But thats just my nature. I carry around a scar on my left arm from a similar situation where a man was threatening a woman with a knife. I knew he was going to use it and was lucky enough to get between the woman and him at the right time. Knife ended up in my arm instead of her chest.

Good on you Sir! I think I would just be angry with myself to see someone hurt in front of me, and know that I may have been able to help. With that being said, I would feel even worse if I hurt someone in the "background". I certainly wouldn't want to explain to my family that we are losing everything because I'm being sued by someone I tried to help.

 

[cmort666]

In Ohio you may defend another, if in that situation they had a right to defend themselves. An armed robbery definitely counts.

If they're heading out the door, I dial 911 and report their description and last known line of march.

If they look like they're going hurt somebody I engage the threat and keep shooting until the threat is neutralized. And I would give no warning. I doubt that the robber(s) called ahead to schedule the robbery. They deserve no more of a heads up.

If you're an armed robber in Ohio, you should expect to get shot at some point. That's why you should consider an alternate career choice.

 

[oldman45]

Those here should read about Jerome Ersland. Just google his name. In brief, he owned a drug store. Two armed men came in at closing looking for cash and drugs. A clerk was threatened. Mr Ersland shot one of the would be robbers and chased another away. Be it he still felt threatened or in the heat of emotions, he shot the guy again. He is now doing life in prison. Bankrupt, lost everything he had. Many feels he was a hero. He served his country well. very respected in the community. He is still doing life.

How does one explain to their family that their entire life savings is gone over shooting someone that was committing a crime?

 

[J Rich]

Those here should read about Jerome Ersland. Just google his name. In brief, he owned a drug store. Two armed men came in at closing looking for cash and drugs. A clerk was threatened. Mr Ersland shot one of the would be robbers and chased another away. Be it he still felt threatened or in the heat of emotions, he shot the guy again. He is now doing life in prison. Bankrupt, lost everything he had. Many feels he was a hero. He served his country well. very respected in the community. He is still doing life.

How does one explain to their family that their entire life savings is gone over shooting someone that was committing a crime?

You know! This just shouldn't be. I guess this is the world we live in now. It's just sad.

 

[WC145]

You are in your local gas station. Some guy come in the door waving a weapon( gun, bat, or knife) to rob the place. The threat may not be directly at you. So, what do you do?

I hope some LEOs will chime in, as you may have came across this in your service.

I draw and identify myself, order him to drop the weapon. If he doesn't comply, I shoot him.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Here's the video of Jerome Ersland the Phamacist. Jerome comes back into the store, he walks by the perp laying on the floor (shot in head), then goes to get another gun, walks back to the perp lying on the floor and unloads 6rds in him. Self defense?

Ersland Charged With Murder in Pharmacy Shooting - YouTube

 

[blujax01]

Here's the video of Jerome Ersland the Phamacist. Jerome comes back into the store, he walks by the perp laying on the floor (shot in head), then goes to get another gun, walks back to the perp lying on the floor and unloads 6rds in him. Self defense?

Uh, I vote no.

 

[chud333]

J Rich i agree with you. I don't believe my conscience would allow me to "stay out of it" as some LEO's on here have advised. As even they know the nearest responder could be miles away and i'm gonna help those who need it if i can. No, i don't have a chip on my shoulder nor am i a wannabe cop. But i don't believe "being a good witness" is the answer either. Who's to say when or if at all the perp/perps will be caught? What if after their robbery of said convience store they get
the attitude that "hey we did it that was easy", and continue. Maybe a bank is next where my wife or kids are standing in line and one of them we're to get shot and killed. No i don't believe waiting on the
proper authorities to catch them is the right way to go for me. I'll gladly take my chances in court over doing nothing and not being able to look myself in the mirror the next day.
As for the Pharmicist he went beyond self defense as the prosecutor pointed out. The first shots we're justifiable,
coming back to cap the guy off while unconscious crossed the line. I've got no problem with his prosecution.


chuck

 

[redlevel]

I am not a police officer. My carry gun is a Model 60. I am not going to go against an armed adversary with that gun unless I am absolutely forced to. Under certain last-ditch circumstances I might intervene, but probably not.

Every civilian who legally carries a weapon should read Evan Marshall's caution against intervention at least once a month.
Commentary by Evan Marshall

 

[J Rich]

Here's the video of Jerome Ersland the Phamacist. Jerome comes back into the store, he walks by the perp laying on the floor (shot in head), then goes to get another gun, walks back to the perp lying on the floor and unloads 6rds in him. Self defense?

Ersland Charged With Murder in Pharmacy Shooting - YouTube

Well in that case I withdraw my previous statement.

 

[chud333]

I am not a police officer. My carry gun is a Model 60. I am not going to go against an armed adversary with that gun unless I am absolutely forced to. Under certain last-ditch circumstances I might intervene, but probably not.

Every civilian who legally carries a weapon should read Evan Marshall's caution against intervention at least once a month.
Commentary by Evan Marshall

Perhaps arming yourself a little better might be in order.
I'll stand by my commitment to help those in need if and when i can. Those who don't feel the same way, it's on you
if you or your family are the next victims of the ones you
chose to let walk. And Mr. Evan Marshall does not walk in my shoes i do.


chuck

 

[StatesRightist]

I am not a police officer. My carry gun is a Model 60. I am not going to go against an armed adversary with that gun unless I am absolutely forced to. Under certain last-ditch circumstances I might intervene, but probably not.

Every civilian who legally carries a weapon should read Evan Marshall's caution against intervention at least once a month.
Commentary by Evan Marshall

Excellent advice, excellent article. Getting into the situation is asking for trouble, avoid it if at all possible. It's not going to end up like a movie.