Don't get me wrong as I like Smiths, but in reality it is the Smith & Wesson that turns the wrong way.
s&w had there LAST chance with me!
- Thread starter treerat
- Start date
Don't get me wrong as I like Smiths, but in reality it is the Smith & Wesson that turns the wrong way.
StatesRightist
Member
I guess my primary question on all of these fit/finish complaints in here is this, did they buy it in the dark? Blindfolded or what? A proper inspection would easily reveal the issues BEFORE you buy it.
Maybe I'm negligently applying common sense again? Just whistling in the dark, carry on.
Maybe I'm negligently applying common sense again? Just whistling in the dark, carry on.
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longranger
Member
Colt SAA's are as good today as ever and better than 1980-90's.
warrconn
Member
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I can only say that the J-frame 442 no-lock I bought in 2010 has run flawlessly and the finish, etc. is exellent. In 2011, I bought the much-maligned Sigma semi-auto in .40...and after 500+ rounds, not a single failure. I, for one, am happy with my new Smiths.
Sorry but when I see something like this I have to say something...What's your source on that?? I still see just as many posts asking "why does my M&P slide release when I insert a mag?" Just yesterday I watched one of the contestants on Top Shot insert at least two different mags into an m&P and watched the slide close on it's own. And yes this was a newer gun because it had the stepped rear sight. So again...if your going to say something like that I have to ask, what's your source?
.
I still see plenty of people complaining about SAA issues on the colt fourm. So if by saying "their as good today as ever" you mean 'they have always had problems', I'll say...I agree.
Avery11
US Veteran
It's all been said and this thread is full of some good debate. This far in we should give ourselves a collective pat on the back for keeping it civil.
I'm in the "older Smith" camp and have stated my reasons here before.
Here is a thought: Some of my very favorite revolvers are no-dash 586's in blue and nickel. Those seem to be universally accepted as outstanding handguns. However, they have the scarlet letter "M". They made the walk of shame to Springfield and yet all I get are compliments when I show them off.
How often do we hear discussion about everyone's favorite "dash"? Did the company issue engineering changes because previous versions were perfect? Nope, but those are the benchmark we compare the new stock with today.
If they slow down the conveyor belt to inspect each piece under a microscope, folks gripe that they are backlogged.
If they hire enough humans to keep QC up to par, folks gripe about price increases.
If they keep up with demand and stay price-competitive, folks gripe about the associated quality issues.
Buy a new gun and it comes with a lifetime no B.S. warranty.
Honestly, what do you want?
Come to think of it, I should probably dump my CS-1 while I still can. That lemon had to go back twice!
A.
I'm in the "older Smith" camp and have stated my reasons here before.
Here is a thought: Some of my very favorite revolvers are no-dash 586's in blue and nickel. Those seem to be universally accepted as outstanding handguns. However, they have the scarlet letter "M". They made the walk of shame to Springfield and yet all I get are compliments when I show them off.
How often do we hear discussion about everyone's favorite "dash"? Did the company issue engineering changes because previous versions were perfect? Nope, but those are the benchmark we compare the new stock with today.
If they slow down the conveyor belt to inspect each piece under a microscope, folks gripe that they are backlogged.
If they hire enough humans to keep QC up to par, folks gripe about price increases.
If they keep up with demand and stay price-competitive, folks gripe about the associated quality issues.
Buy a new gun and it comes with a lifetime no B.S. warranty.
Honestly, what do you want?
Come to think of it, I should probably dump my CS-1 while I still can. That lemon had to go back twice!
A.
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mc5aw
Member
Avery ... You know the old saying ... when S&W gives you a lemon, make it a Lemon Squeezer. 
I have bought a lifetime worth of Smiths, new and old the last couple of years... virtually little to no problems. But there were a few issues with both new and old guns... I didn't bash S&W, I didn't come in here and whine about it. In fact I may have mentioned a few issues, but fixed them and moved on. S&W is the best darn gun company in the world... in my book!!
If ya got a problem, everyone here would jump up to the plate to help, many of us have used CS and S&W support has always been pretty darn good the few times I called them. Coming in just to attempt to hurt S&W is going to get the usual llikes from the few I won't mention, but it's a handful of guys out of thousands on this board that think they are a majority, guess what... those that complain and those that raa, raa the complainers are a spec in the pile of happy gun owners. I feel sorry for those few guys that try so hard to knock S&W new guns and plastic guns, cause you sound pathetic.. but it's your right to freedom of speech that so many of us here have fought to preserve, but it doesn't make it right in my book. Lot's more I'd like to say... but I won't. I'll just poke around here, look for some good reads, maybe some S&W gun porn and scheme about my next S&W purchase.... I'm heading to our local gun show tomorrow, got a Governor in my head if I find one, maybe something in a 300 win, 50bmg, maybe a 308 upper AR.... or just any good deal on any S&W gun!!!
If ya got a problem, everyone here would jump up to the plate to help, many of us have used CS and S&W support has always been pretty darn good the few times I called them. Coming in just to attempt to hurt S&W is going to get the usual llikes from the few I won't mention, but it's a handful of guys out of thousands on this board that think they are a majority, guess what... those that complain and those that raa, raa the complainers are a spec in the pile of happy gun owners. I feel sorry for those few guys that try so hard to knock S&W new guns and plastic guns, cause you sound pathetic.. but it's your right to freedom of speech that so many of us here have fought to preserve, but it doesn't make it right in my book. Lot's more I'd like to say... but I won't. I'll just poke around here, look for some good reads, maybe some S&W gun porn and scheme about my next S&W purchase.... I'm heading to our local gun show tomorrow, got a Governor in my head if I find one, maybe something in a 300 win, 50bmg, maybe a 308 upper AR.... or just any good deal on any S&W gun!!!
I could actually ask the same. What's your source? Something you perceived from a TV show? Internet posts? Really? Well, I guess that's my source, too. I read on a forum that Smith addressed the mag closure problem and I have rarely seen posts about that ever since then. I guess my other source is personal experience. My job puts me in a position to see a service guns do their job-a lot. I don't go around saving links in the event that somebody asks me to quote a source.
YAWN!! I'm just going to say it... Naaaa... better not....
Hmmmmm... You've been a member here for about a month. Made a few posts and now you're trying to hammer the products... Very interesting...
I've been collecting S&Ws for several decades and I've seen them in all their various manufacturing stages, dash numbers, finishes and calibers. I also own many newer (yes, IL and mims) guns and haven't seen evidence of the all-encompassing problems you assert. The S&W warranty should be emulated by manufacturers of everything.....
I think I'll buy a new S&W today to celebrate your unfounded dissatisfaction...
Hmmmmm... You've been a member here for about a month. Made a few posts and now you're trying to hammer the products... Very interesting...
I've been collecting S&Ws for several decades and I've seen them in all their various manufacturing stages, dash numbers, finishes and calibers. I also own many newer (yes, IL and mims) guns and haven't seen evidence of the all-encompassing problems you assert. The S&W warranty should be emulated by manufacturers of everything.....
I think I'll buy a new S&W today to celebrate your unfounded dissatisfaction...
It states in the Owner's Manual the following...
WARNING: DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE
WHEN INSERTING A LOADED MAGAZINE INTO THE
PISTOL. EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE COULD CAUSE
THE SLIDE TO MOVE FORWARD, CHAMBERING A ROUND AND
MAKING THE PISTOL READY TO FIRE.
Clickie here and see page 16...
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/M&P_Pistol_Manual_10-30-10.pdf
Someone sure is full of them self!! I absolutely cannot believe what I just read...Your going to tell me I didn't see what I saw and then tell me I should believe YOU because you haven't read it on the forums!? Will you ever forgive me for questioning you?
Just WOW!
What we want is a quality product for an affordable cost and a great warranty. Smith and Wesson need to get their heads out of the clouds and bring a little reality back into the company. People are not going to like this comparason but its a good one.
Hi-Point Firearms is a small company they make inexpensive firearms. I have two of them. They have never given me any problems at all, ever. Hi-Point gives the guns a lifetime warranty. When you need a part for the gun because you loose a part in shag carpet all you do is call and they ship you the part, no questions asked. They do not want any more money from you, all they want is to make sure their product, that you have works the way it is intended to because it has there name on it and its their reputation. I speak to the same person everytime I call. There is no answering service when they are open, the phone will ring until someone picks up the phone. Whe nthey are closed a machine picks up and says "we're closed call back when we are open". Hi-Point sells you a good gun that works all the time for between $100-$400.
If S&W would get back to the way a fine American company with a great reputation produces a quality product they would not be loosing their buisness to other companies like Glock and Rock Island. If I am going to spend the extra money to buy American prooducts it better be worth the money and stand up to the test of time without fail.
That is what we want.
Someone sure is full of them self!! I absolutely cannot believe what I just read...Your going to tell me I didn't see what I saw and then tell me I should believe YOU because you haven't read it on the forums!? Will you ever forgive me for questioning you?
You have a nice evening, sir.
In short I also believe that the incredible sales of new guns has created some QC issues with S&W, Ruger, Colt, taurus etc. There are 5 options one has.
1. Stop buying news guns altogether. (There are plenty older reliable models are still available.
2. Buy new, take your chances and understand that you may have to use the unlimited lifetime S&W warranty.
3. Write a letter to Smith & Wesson, express your issues and concerns with their QC and ask them what they can do to fix it.
4. Buy other new brands and see #2 above except for the (unlimited lifetime part)
5. Stop buying guns
1. Stop buying news guns altogether. (There are plenty older reliable models are still available.
2. Buy new, take your chances and understand that you may have to use the unlimited lifetime S&W warranty.
3. Write a letter to Smith & Wesson, express your issues and concerns with their QC and ask them what they can do to fix it.
4. Buy other new brands and see #2 above except for the (unlimited lifetime part)
5. Stop buying guns
In short I also believe that the incredible sales of new guns has created some QC issues with S&W, Ruger, Colt, taurus etc. There are 5 options one has.
1. Stop buying news guns altogether. (There are plenty older reliable models are still available.
2. Buy new, take your chances and understand that you may have to use the unlimited lifetime S&W warranty.
3. Write a letter to Smith & Wesson, express your issues and concerns with their QC and ask them what they can do to fix it.
4. Buy other new brands and see #2 above except for the (unlimited lifetime part)
5. Stop buying guns
You were making perfect sense there for a second...
)Fuego
Member
It may be a combination of things. Certainly demand for S&W revolvers is at an all time high. We all can see what is coming, and we want a reliable handgun. S&W is the gun of choice for people that know any better.
In addition, it may well be that most first time buyers do not know how to assess quality in a revolver, and if it says "S&W" they buy it and put it in the nightstand drawer.
My situation is not uncommon. I bought a S&W 340PD a few years ago. It would not properly index the cylinders. I suspect the hand was too short. I spoke to S&W and they said it was normal!
I bought this thing new, so it went back to the gunstore, and they agreed with me. It went back to S&W for a repair.
When I got it back it was no better. The cylinder would still not lock up positively. THe shop sent it back again.
This time, S&W must have decided that I was serious, or the gun store owner send a strongly worded message. In any case, it came back working correctly.
Bottom Line: It should never have left the factory TWICE! All the repair work and shipping costs was borne by either the gun store or S&W, but it had to have been a PITA for all concerned, just with the paperwork.
In addition, it may well be that most first time buyers do not know how to assess quality in a revolver, and if it says "S&W" they buy it and put it in the nightstand drawer.
My situation is not uncommon. I bought a S&W 340PD a few years ago. It would not properly index the cylinders. I suspect the hand was too short. I spoke to S&W and they said it was normal!
I bought this thing new, so it went back to the gunstore, and they agreed with me. It went back to S&W for a repair.
When I got it back it was no better. The cylinder would still not lock up positively. THe shop sent it back again.
This time, S&W must have decided that I was serious, or the gun store owner send a strongly worded message. In any case, it came back working correctly.
Bottom Line: It should never have left the factory TWICE! All the repair work and shipping costs was borne by either the gun store or S&W, but it had to have been a PITA for all concerned, just with the paperwork.
cowboy85306
Member
Howdy-
I, too, own many Smiths, and I too, bought mostly older ( pinned and recessed ) examples, though today I picked up a NICE model 10-8 3" round butt in carried some, shot little condition. Upon sideplate removal for close inspection, found the mark of the times- not a HINT of lubricant anywhere. No fine polish , either. After a good dust removal and lube, feels better, but not the equal of my mid 70's Model 15, nor a host of others.
Have TWO Smiths I bought new- a 629 ( 5", full underlug) which shoots fine, handles well, and as far as that goes, is what I feel S&W should have done to begin with ( mind you, that is no complaint ). The other is an AirLite .22 model 317 (8 shot) that shot 4 inches to right of point of aim ( at 7 yards! ) with the rear sight cranked all the way left. Clearly, NOT S&Ws best effort. While it was away for "rehab", I had opportunity to ask why it seemed that a company like S&W would think they could "coast" and rely on their past reputation and be satisfied while putting their good name on products that should have never left the factory? Since when did the customer have to do the only apparent QC checks on the product, and find that MAYBE it was fit for the intended use? The point is, even the sales staff at my favorite shop had commented that Smith seemed to be really "pushing them out, and fixing them later". Guess the current lifetime warranty is a good thing, even if I'm confident I will only need it for new production. The old stuff just seems to go on working with ordinary care.
Just my 0.02
I, too, own many Smiths, and I too, bought mostly older ( pinned and recessed ) examples, though today I picked up a NICE model 10-8 3" round butt in carried some, shot little condition. Upon sideplate removal for close inspection, found the mark of the times- not a HINT of lubricant anywhere. No fine polish , either. After a good dust removal and lube, feels better, but not the equal of my mid 70's Model 15, nor a host of others.
Have TWO Smiths I bought new- a 629 ( 5", full underlug) which shoots fine, handles well, and as far as that goes, is what I feel S&W should have done to begin with ( mind you, that is no complaint ). The other is an AirLite .22 model 317 (8 shot) that shot 4 inches to right of point of aim ( at 7 yards! ) with the rear sight cranked all the way left. Clearly, NOT S&Ws best effort. While it was away for "rehab", I had opportunity to ask why it seemed that a company like S&W would think they could "coast" and rely on their past reputation and be satisfied while putting their good name on products that should have never left the factory? Since when did the customer have to do the only apparent QC checks on the product, and find that MAYBE it was fit for the intended use? The point is, even the sales staff at my favorite shop had commented that Smith seemed to be really "pushing them out, and fixing them later". Guess the current lifetime warranty is a good thing, even if I'm confident I will only need it for new production. The old stuff just seems to go on working with ordinary care.
Just my 0.02
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In short I also believe that the incredible sales of new guns has created some QC issues with S&W, Ruger, Colt, taurus etc. There are 5 options one has.
1. Stop buying news guns altogether. (There are plenty older reliable models are still available.
2. Buy new, take your chances and understand that you may have to use the unlimited lifetime S&W warranty.
3. Write a letter to Smith & Wesson, express your issues and concerns with their QC and ask them what they can do to fix it.
4. Buy other new brands and see #2 above except for the (unlimited lifetime part)
5. Stop buying guns
6. Closely inspect a new gun before you buy, looking for the issues real or imagined cited over and over on this forum ad nauseum. Especially if you have just purchased three "lemons" in a two-month span.
7. Trash the manufacturers and ask the government to take care of you because you are not a savvy consumer.
8. View homebrewed "fixes" on the Internet involving hammers, vises and leather, "fix" all your guns, then trade them to some other unsuspecting fellow who will be right along to complain about Smith quality issues.
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