.455 Picture Thread
- Thread starter Goony
- Start date
Texas Star
US Veteran
Photos of .455 Colt ammunition boxes
It is interesting how many high condition 455 are floating around out there. I remember several years ago when Jim Supica had several pages of these revolvers for sale, all in high condition. The British and Canadians must have taken great care in maintaining these revolvers.
It might shoot better with larger dia softer bulets but the hard
cast .452 dia bullets often available today aren't the answer.
I did a quick comparison this afternoon in my back yard over
my " benchrest " sawhorse with a rolled up piece of carpet on
top between my 1917, my 1937 Brazilian and the 1915 .455.
Interesting groups.
Attachments
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Thems some nice keyholes thar!
The extractor groove is bigger (looking similar to the one on .45 ACP's) because the cases were made by trimming .45 Colt brass and reducing the rim thickness from the *inside* edge of the rim. If memory serves, I got them from Buffalo Arms?
That they are! Cast them myself....
They're doing a rippin' 650 fps!
Scary Gary
Member
I just picked up a Smith & Wesson .455 . She has been modified to shoot .45 Long Colt.
The gunsmith I got her from said she is mechanically sound and should be safe to shoot standard factory .45 Long Colt.
For as old as she is she still retains 70-80 % of her finish.
I hope I look that good when I'm her age. Okay who am I kidding? I've never looked that good.
She has some stamps on her and I'd like to know all I can about her past.
She may have gotten around some in her youth. Ahh to be young again.
She is S/N 59040
She Is stamped Smith & Wesson .455. On the left side of her barrel.
Crossed flags on left side of frame just below the barrel pin.
Left side, top right corner of frame, just under the top of her 1950's diamond grips is stamped an upward pointing arrow, under that a crown, under that is 44, under that is E, and under that is what looks like II.
All these are stacked on top of each other.
On the right side of her frame, lower right corner is stamped 4MD with the number 13 under that.
And on the right side of her frame just under her S&W Trade Mark is stamped the number 2280 .
Anything and everything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
The gunsmith I got her from said she is mechanically sound and should be safe to shoot standard factory .45 Long Colt.
For as old as she is she still retains 70-80 % of her finish.
I hope I look that good when I'm her age. Okay who am I kidding? I've never looked that good.
She has some stamps on her and I'd like to know all I can about her past.
She may have gotten around some in her youth. Ahh to be young again.
She is S/N 59040
She Is stamped Smith & Wesson .455. On the left side of her barrel.
Crossed flags on left side of frame just below the barrel pin.
Left side, top right corner of frame, just under the top of her 1950's diamond grips is stamped an upward pointing arrow, under that a crown, under that is 44, under that is E, and under that is what looks like II.
All these are stacked on top of each other.
On the right side of her frame, lower right corner is stamped 4MD with the number 13 under that.
And on the right side of her frame just under her S&W Trade Mark is stamped the number 2280 .
Anything and everything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
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That would be extraordinarily rare! But I presume that's just a typo on your part.
Flags or pennants? In this case, a photo would be helpful.
The arrow should be a broad arrow (denoting government ownership). The crown over 44 is likely an inspector's acceptance mark. The E over II suggests to me Queen Elizabeth II, but that would mean the gun would have to been retained in service until at least 1952, which seems unlikely.
4MD may indicate the 4th Military District, Central Command, South Australia, but that mark ought to be "4.M.D."
Perhaps an assigned rack or property number.
Scary Gary
Member
That Sir was a typo, thanks for pointing it out.
And I have pictures, I just can't figure out how to put them on here.
Sorry.
And I have pictures, I just can't figure out how to put them on here.
Sorry.
deadin
US Veteran
gunfish,
Have you lettered this TL? The serial number given is way out of line with the .455 1st British contract Triple Locks.
They were numbered in their own series from 1 to 5000 (app.)
deadin
US Veteran
Here is my .455 “Named” TL. (Still 100% original except as explained.)
When I received it the previous owner (not the same as on the gun) had “removed” the name by taking two shallow milling cuts over the engraving. I went to a machinist friend and asked if he knew any way to raise the old markings. Fortunately, he did. Unfortunately when he masked off the area for bead blasting, he did a sloppy job. Hence the damage as you can see.
The following is a brief history of the original owner:
Temp. Captain C(harles) F(rancis) Drew, M.B. RAMC
Charles Francis DREW graduated from The University of Adelaide with a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBS) on 13 December 1911
March 1915 ~ Enlisted in Royal Army Medical Corps
19 March 1915- Appointed Temp Lieutenant .
1 June 1915 – Entered France . Assigned to No. 9 Field Ambulance.
(A Field Ambulance was roughly the same as a forward aid station. They gave first treatment and transported to the rear hospitals.)
19 March 1916 – Appointed Temp Captain .
24 Dec1917 – Mentioned in Despatches.
23 Jan 1918 –Relinquished commission on account of illness.
1 Jan 1919- Awarded the Military Cross (No. 9, Field Amb).
7 Nov 1924 ? Associated with Victory, British , Star (1915) & Emblems on MIC (Medal Index Card)
Also shown as on Officer roll 141 Pgs. 204b and 338 .
I also have his birthplace, birthdate and his parents but can’t seem to lay my hands on them right now.
It is my assumption that he returned to Australia sometime after the war as the sidearm in question came out of Australia.
Here’s a brief history of
No.9, Field Ambulance.
Joined 3rd Division Aug 1914
Left 3rd Division 28 Aug 1915
Joined Guards Division 28 Aug 1915
For the duration of the war.
The following is a response I received from David Penn in reply to my queries concerning doctors carrying sidearms:
It was entirely usual for RAMC officers to carry a pistol. and, as with other army officers, they were required to purchase their own. By the middle of the war this was in practice possible where .455 revolvers were concerned only by purchasing a revolver 'out of store' (i.e. from the War Office) or second hand, privately. It was of course still possible to purchase pistols not in the Service calibre from civilian sources, and many officers chose to carry something other than (or as well as) a .455 (.32 acp Colts were very popular). Revolvers with the opposed broad arrow markings were 'sold out of store'. These became the officer's property absolutely. At the end of the War, there was a second shortage of revolvers (the American factories were making for the American government, and relations between the British government and Webley were not good). The government therefore launched an appeal to retired officers to sell back their .455s. Very occasionally, therefore, such a revolver is found with cancelled 'sold out of store' markings.
I hope that this information is of help in your research.
Yours sincerely,
David Penn
Keeper, Exhibits & Firearms BWM
When I received it the previous owner (not the same as on the gun) had “removed” the name by taking two shallow milling cuts over the engraving. I went to a machinist friend and asked if he knew any way to raise the old markings. Fortunately, he did. Unfortunately when he masked off the area for bead blasting, he did a sloppy job. Hence the damage as you can see.
The following is a brief history of the original owner:
Temp. Captain C(harles) F(rancis) Drew, M.B. RAMC
Charles Francis DREW graduated from The University of Adelaide with a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery (MBBS) on 13 December 1911
March 1915 ~ Enlisted in Royal Army Medical Corps
19 March 1915- Appointed Temp Lieutenant .
1 June 1915 – Entered France . Assigned to No. 9 Field Ambulance.
(A Field Ambulance was roughly the same as a forward aid station. They gave first treatment and transported to the rear hospitals.)
19 March 1916 – Appointed Temp Captain .
24 Dec1917 – Mentioned in Despatches.
23 Jan 1918 –Relinquished commission on account of illness.
1 Jan 1919- Awarded the Military Cross (No. 9, Field Amb).
7 Nov 1924 ? Associated with Victory, British , Star (1915) & Emblems on MIC (Medal Index Card)
Also shown as on Officer roll 141 Pgs. 204b and 338 .
I also have his birthplace, birthdate and his parents but can’t seem to lay my hands on them right now.
It is my assumption that he returned to Australia sometime after the war as the sidearm in question came out of Australia.
Here’s a brief history of
No.9, Field Ambulance.
Joined 3rd Division Aug 1914
Left 3rd Division 28 Aug 1915
Joined Guards Division 28 Aug 1915
For the duration of the war.
The following is a response I received from David Penn in reply to my queries concerning doctors carrying sidearms:
It was entirely usual for RAMC officers to carry a pistol. and, as with other army officers, they were required to purchase their own. By the middle of the war this was in practice possible where .455 revolvers were concerned only by purchasing a revolver 'out of store' (i.e. from the War Office) or second hand, privately. It was of course still possible to purchase pistols not in the Service calibre from civilian sources, and many officers chose to carry something other than (or as well as) a .455 (.32 acp Colts were very popular). Revolvers with the opposed broad arrow markings were 'sold out of store'. These became the officer's property absolutely. At the end of the War, there was a second shortage of revolvers (the American factories were making for the American government, and relations between the British government and Webley were not good). The government therefore launched an appeal to retired officers to sell back their .455s. Very occasionally, therefore, such a revolver is found with cancelled 'sold out of store' markings.
I hope that this information is of help in your research.
Yours sincerely,
David Penn
Keeper, Exhibits & Firearms BWM
deadin
US Veteran
You are 100% correct! The Neal & Jinks book "Smith & Wesson 1857 - 1945" has the serial listings for these revolvers and 9143 is on that list.
Dean, I have a couple questions:
What is the serial number range of your Triple Lock (that is, is it one of the early contract guns or a later conversion from .44 as mentioned above)?
Was the convention of using an opposed broad arrow marking to signify a revolver having been "sold out of store" a commonwealth-wide one? Would Australian and Canadian guns have received that same mark under the same circumstances?
What is the serial number range of your Triple Lock (that is, is it one of the early contract guns or a later conversion from .44 as mentioned above)?
Was the convention of using an opposed broad arrow marking to signify a revolver having been "sold out of store" a commonwealth-wide one? Would Australian and Canadian guns have received that same mark under the same circumstances?
deadin
US Veteran
Mine is one of the 1st Contract guns that fell in their own serial range of 1 to ~5000. (Mine is # 718 ).
The opposed broad arrows were definitely used in Britain and Canada, I'm not sure about Australia. (Maybe one of our ANZAC's can answer.)
The opposed broad arrows were definitely used in Britain and Canada, I'm not sure about Australia. (Maybe one of our ANZAC's can answer.)
S&W_aussie
Member
Hi Goony & Scary Gary,
I have one with almost the exact same markings. Broad arrow, crown, 44, E, II.
I have attached a pic that is not too clear but you can make out the 'lazy' arrow at the top then the crown, 44, E & II.
The E is the "Enfield RSAF" view mark and the II is to denote that this is a "MkII" as oposed to the New Century Triple Lock. (info taken from page 402 of Hayes Handgun Omnibus)
Mine has the number 2126 under the S&W Trade Mark and the number 3 over 24 where Scary's has the 4MD over 13. Mine also has 3.M.D. stamped on the backstrap...certainly the mark of the Austrlaian 3rd Military District (Victoria).
I have ben assuming that the 3 on mine was for the 3rd Military District (Victoria) and 24th Battalion AIF (Raised in Kooyong, Victoria). I assumed the 2126 was the rack number.
It also has the crossed penants and a "sold out of service" broad arrow mark.
I have attached the pics below
Mike
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Thank you, Mike, particularly for the correct interpretation of the "E" over "II" mark. I'd never heard of the Hayes Handgun Omnibus, but I guess I'll need to add a copy to my library now.
Scary Gary
Member
Thank you so much for the information Sir.
What does " enfield RSAF " stand for?
And does this make mine Australian as well?
What does " enfield RSAF " stand for?
And does this make mine Australian as well?
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