.455 Picture Thread

[Texas Star]

Thank you so much for the information Sir.
What does " enfield RSAF " stand for?
And does this make mine Australian as well?

Gary-

Enfield is the Royal Small Arms Factory, (RSAF). It is located at Enfield Lock, England. The Lee-Enfield rifles may be their best known product, although other suppliers existed, too.

During WW II, they farmed out rifle production, I think, to concentrate on making Bren guns and their design of .38 revolver. (Adopted in 1927 to replace the .455 Webley MK VI, which they were making by then, to avoid ordering them from Webley.)

This was possible because the Crown can't be sued, but caused bad blood between the govt. and Webley.

These WWI and WWII S&W guns were probably proofed or just distributed from there. Guns sent on to the Commonwealth may well have passed through Enfield. If it has suitable markings, probably yours is one. But Lithgow Arsenal (Munitions Australia) may also have marked some guns. Many of the S&W .38's given Factory Thorough Repair (FTR) there in the 1950's are now in the USA.

Listen carefully to your gun. If you pick it up and it says, "G'Day, Mate.", it is probably an Australian example.

 

[S&W_aussie]

Thank you so much for the information Sir.
What does " enfield RSAF " stand for?
And does this make mine Australian as well?

Hi Scary,

Like T-Star said most S&W revolvers for Commonwealth service were proofed at the Enfield RSAF and distributed from there. When the WWI broke out Australia had only been its own country for 13 years (from 1901). Prior to that it was just a collection of British colonies so ties were still fairly strong.

In fact Australian military was still awarded British bravery and gallantry medals and honours until about 1975 and our highest bravery award, "The Victoria Cross for Australia", was only introduced in 1991! Previously all Victoria Cross awards were British!

Anyway, your revolver would almost certainly be an Australian issue with the 4MD and same markings as mine.

T-Star also mentioned the Lithgow Small Arms Factory. Between 1913 & 1925 the Lithgow inspection mark was a 7 pointed star with an "A" in the centre. I have seen plenty of these on .303 rifles and bayonets but I have not come accross one on a revolver yet. They did proof the WWII Enfield MkII made under contract by HAC (Howard Auto Cultivators)...incidentally there were only about 350 HAC Enfields made...I NEED one!

LOVE to see some pics of yours just to make sure though! Does it look like mine?

CHeers

Mike

 

[Scary Gary]

Mine looks almost identical to yours.
And I can't figure out how to down load pictures.
Sorry.
And thanks for everyone's help.

 

[S&W_aussie]

Mine looks almost identical to yours.
And I can't figure out how to down load pictures.
Sorry.
And thanks for everyone's help.

Hey Scary,

I just tried to send you a private message about uploading pics but your mailbox is full...I cant send it until you delete some stuff...lol

 

[Scary Gary]

How did my mailbox get full?
I'll check it out.
Thanks.

Okay.
I got the mailbox thingy taken care of.

 

[Hondo44]

SN# 52554 Shipped April 1916
SN# 53541 Shipped June 9, 1916

Chad Gripp
SWCA #2323

Chad those are amazing examples. However, I have to say the box is just as amazing! Maybe you already know why your box reads 45 Special on the inside and the 455 label is pasted over an older label.
Smith & Wesson 1857-1945, by Neal & Jinks. Page 208 references the experimental S&W 45 Special for the 1907 Army revolver trials and S&Ws subsequent consideration of introducing the revolver/cartridge commercially:

""In 1908 or 1909 [S&W] seriously considered introducing a model that was to be called the "45 Special." This cartridge was designed for use in the 44 Hand Ejector 1st Model. The cartridge was a revolver cartridge developed for military use at the Frankford Arsenal. The project progressed so far that the company actually made boxes for the gun, but it was never commercially sold."

I believe you have one of those boxes! Discussed in this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/239473-army-tests-triple-lock-1907-a.html

 

[gripper]

Jim, It just so happens I recently had a conversation with a fellow collector about the box reading .45 special. We speculated that it had something to do with an experimental cartridge, but didn't really know. My next step was to call Roy and see if he could shed some light on the subject. I appreciate you bringing the other thread to my attention......It answers a lot of questions. I'll post a pic or two over on that thread.

Chad

 

[Goony]

Advertisement from 1955

Indicative of not all cartridge conversions from .455 having been performed by individual owners (or the local gunsmith).

 

[deadin]

Warshall's was a local gunsmith and large sporting goods store in Seattle at that time....

 

[bmg60]

Hi
don't want to hijack your thread but here is a rare 455 built by Joe Wesson for his friend
Mr. Herreshoff who was a famous Yacht Builder. This gun won a Silver metal in 2007 at the Nra convention,
Jim Fisher

 

[jaymoore]

No picture, but an interesting story. I was at the Albuquerque gun show a few weeks ago and an old friend told me this. He is a good machinist and has a nice shop full of tools.

Some years ago, when they were cheap, he bought an old Smith, probably a 2d Model, in 455. It was in nice shape with a good bore and he wanted to shoot it. 455 ammo was a lot scarcer then than now. He decided he'd rechamber it to 45 Colt. He had it all cinched up in the holder and was about to machine it when his daughter, who was watching said: "Daddy, what's this marking on the butt: RFC?" He looked, turned a little pale , took the cylidner out of the die, reassembled the pistol, oiled it carefully and put it away. He still has it. He says he's never heard of another revolver marked to the Royal Flying Corps, the ancestor of the RAF. The change occured in 1918.

I have an RFC marked .455. Assigned to a Reconnaisance Squadron- can't remember the unit number. But no photos yet! Unfortunately, it had the cylinder reamed to .45 Colt. But the rim was carefully counterbored for the extra thickness, so the larger O.D. of the .455 rim still seats against the rear face of the cylinder so it will fire either cartridge, no dramas!. It's also got a bit of wear, but that concerns me not at all.

Will try and do some photos this week.

 

[C&R Bill]

Thanks to all who posted in this thread, Maybe its heresy or its just the association with WW1, but I have always liked the 455s even more than the early 44 specials....

 

[Teddydog]

She is S/N 59040
She Is stamped Smith & Wesson .455. On the left side of her barrel.
Crossed flags on left side of frame just below the barrel pin.
Left side, top right corner of frame, just under the top of her 1950's diamond grips is stamped an upward pointing arrow, under that a crown, under that is 44, under that is E, and under that is what looks like II.
All these are stacked on top of each other.
On the right side of her frame, lower right corner is stamped 4MD with the number 13 under that.
And on the right side of her frame just under her S&W Trade Mark is stamped the number 2280 .
Anything and everything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

I missed this thread the first time around. I also have a .455 with "4MD" on the right side of the frame, but with 24 under it rather than 13. Have we had any definitive answer about what this means? I always thougth it was/is Australian. My SN is 55532.

Rob

 

[jaymoore]

A "22 RS.RFC" marked .455

Some photos:

But unlike the RFC marked revolver first mentioned above, this one is now both .45 Colt and .455 Due to careful rechambering. Oh, well...

 

[Hondo44]

Well that is one nice ole war horse! And is certainly the very classiest way to convert one in my opinion; a dual cartridge cylinder and a safe shooter in either mode.

 

[Texas Star]

I missed this thread the first time around. I also have a .455 with "4MD" on the right side of the frame, but with 24 under it rather than 13. Have we had any definitive answer about what this means? I always thougth it was/is Australian. My SN is 55532.

Rob

4th Military District, Victoria state, Australia. Dunno about the 24, maybe a unit there. The number under the S&W logo is probably a rack or inventory number. This was likely an "issue" gun, not sold to an officer "out of Stores."

S&W Aussie posted the info about Victoria and the MD there. He lives in Brisbane. (Queensland)

He added that until 1901, Australia wasn't formally a country, but a collection of colonies. I didn't know that, nor will your waitress at the Outback Steakhouse...

A No. 2 lead pencil may remove those rust marks on the trigger.

 

[H4831]

SMITH & WESSON .455

The number II in the picture is not mine, but I took the pictures and examined it.
The barel is marked exactly like shown in my title.
S/N is 3837X.
There has been no altering of the original calibre. What would be a ball park estimate of value for this gun?
This is just for interests sake, because I have no interest in the gun.

 

[etexas]

Here's mine.

Converted to .45 with clips. Serial 21893.

 

[dnonac]

Here's Another...with added trigger stop. Lots of Pics

Had this posted on another thread and at the suggestion of one of the members, moved it here. Great thread!

This is my first 455 and this one has not been converted and remains in the original caliber. All numbers match.

Serial is 64881. Maybe 1916-1917?
Has 6 1/2" barrel and a fair amount of original bluing as well. Stocks are in decent shape and number to the gun via pencil on the right grip. Internals are shiny clean......after an hour or so of de-gunking last night.

One interesting feature is the tiny, threaded trigger stop inside the trigger guard and visible in the first 3 pics (and last pic). Don't know who added it but I haven't seen another like it.

I've read several previous posts about these interesting old guns and my curiosity is peaked. The only mark I see that I believe indicates some English usage is the "Crown over 30" on the butt. No arrows, proof marks etc can be found anywhere.

This gun was recovered in a house being demolished several years ago and when found it was loaded with what I presume might be original ammo (I have those 6 rounds as well).

I presume that some of these guns never got issued to the military; hence the lack of military markings on this one. But....I've presumed before and been dead wrong.
Look forward to hearing from some of you guys that know about these.
Craig
SWCA 2380

 

[Mexican Kerry]

I've got two less-than-mint .455 pistols now. I used to have a beautiful nickel Webley WG, but sold it to my dad when an old S70 Gold Cup came along. These are far from the condition of previous posters' examples, but they still have a special place in my modest collection.

Hope I don't get lynched for posting a picture of a non-Smith!