3rd Gen Obsolete?

ColColt

ColColt

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I tried to order some parts for my upcoming 4516-1 I just bought, mag springs, recoil springs, magazines, etc and was told the recoil spring was obsolete as were the mag springs...not good. Wolff can supply the recoil spring and I believe I have a dozen mag springs for the 4506 which will fit but the magazines I ordered were put on back order. He said he had over 100 people back ordered on the mags. I'm wondering if I made a mistake. I hope nothing breaks.

I realize they haven't made the 3rd gen pistols in some while but it hasn't been that long back I ordered mag and recoil springs from S&W along with a few extra mags for the 4506. Good thing I have a supply of recoil and mag springs for it as well as eight magazines.

I forgot to mention I was going to order the recoil springs from Wolff but there is a two week wait from the message after I started to check out. Apparently they've been inundated with orders.
 
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So much for the "life time warranty" huh? I don't get Smiths attitude toward these wonderful pistols! I guess they figure when they wear out you'll have to buy an M&P.
You might want to drop your local gunsmith a call and see if he knows anybody making the mag springs.
As for as the 3rd Gen being obsolete, that's like saying the P-51 Mustang (despite being a great platform for eight .50cal Brownings!) is out to pasture as a fighter! Either one will still make a bad guy wish he'd stayed home! Dale
 
I'm not too concerned about the mag springs as the 4506 springs will fit the 4516-1 mag and Wolff has those...it's just a matter of a long wait when you need them now. However, S&W told me today the recoil spring was defunct but, that again can be gotten at Wolff. What got me was the long back order on the magazines. He said some had been waiting for months and I had to get on the list.
 
I've read during a search where someone was having trouble with the Wolff recoil spring being too short compared to the factory one. If that's the case, I'm wondering if you could cut the coils from a 4506 spring, the same amount of turns the 4516-1 has and use it instead...hmmmm maybe so. I know some who trim a GM 1911 recoil sporing to fit the Commander(23 1/2 coils I think) and it works fine.
 
It's been awhile since I "popped the hood" on a 4516, but doesn't it use two springs?
And have you checked with Midway? Dale
 
The -1 version uses one recoil spring.
 
Heaven knows how many 3 gen pistols are out there. Many of them are still in service, even if they are no longer a common LE gun. People who have them will try to keep them running and will pretty quickly soak up replacement parts. Springs will probably be available from Wolff for some time, but I suspect the supply of other replacement parts is limited to what now exists. Parts that are common to several models will be the easiest to find. The stuff that's specific to one caliber or model will be the first to go. The first auto I truly lusted after was a 39-2 in 1964, when I was 15. I can probably keep what I have running for the period of time that I'm likely to interested, but their days are numbered.

I, and many others, have gone through this process with Colt DA revolvers. Smith and Wesson has at least not just walked away from their customers. They have a few LE users they will support as best they can, but in a few years, parts and service will be hard to come by.

I love them, but these guns are now part of the past, not the future.
 
Texas1941 said:
...
I love them, but these guns are now part of the past, not the future.
Click to expand...

A-Yup. For the most part the day of the all-metal auto has passed (1911 excluded). Polymer guns are lighter, work as well, are cheaper to make and have been in service for a quarter of a century.

Man am I going to get rained on for this!:D
 
Blujax01 I hate it but I have to agree with you.I love the older guns the most.I have 3 M&Ps and like them.but when I think of S&W autos I see the old 1st 2nd and 3rd gen ones in my mind not the new ones. I have several of my favorites so atleast I can make one a rob bird if need be.
 
Call Wolff gun springs Col. They can provide you with recoil springs for your 4516-1.

3rd generation pistols obsolete? Only to folks who didn't grow up in a gun culture, don't know what a good trigger feels like, think a 80 qual score is "really good shootin!" and are enamoured of tupperware guns.

Those of us who can shoot and carry guns for serious purpose, do not consider these guns to be "obsolete". ;) Regards 18DAI
 
Other vendors will make magazines if demand exists. MecGar already makes mags for the 59 and its descendants, including 17rd mags that work great.

Check ProMags offerings. They probably already offer mags for the third gen .45s. Their quality, at least on metal pistol mags, has become better in recent years.

Parts for Colt D frame revolvers can be had from Armscor. They bought the rights to make the things and still turn them out in the PI, albeit that even they admit that the end product isn't quite as good.
 
gboling said:
S&W doesn't advertise the fact but, they are still making the 3rd generation guns for police departments that standardized on them. Their parts backorders are probably due to commitments to those departments.
Click to expand...
West Virginia State Police just purchased a large quantity of 3rd generation S&W 4566's all metal pistols. I believe LAPD Officers can still special order 4506 and 4566 pistols. A department here in Ohio just purchased about 50 new 3rd generation pistols. I believe they were 4566's so S&W will make and maintain for Law Enforcement agencies. Just not for the general customer or shooter.
 
Hi Tim Nagel,

any more details on those 4566's for the Ohio agency? Were they melonite like the WVSP guns? Regards 18DAI
 
The single recoil spring for the 4516's that use the single spring haven't been carried by S&W for some time. (I asked a few years ago.) Just the nested dual springs for the newer compacts.

I've been told S&W's been focusing a lot of their money on newer projects, new model lines, moving the TC manufacturing equipment to Springfield, etc so they haven't been replenishing the 3rd gen parts as they've been draining as they normally would. This might also have been complicated by the 3rd gen production & repair having been moved to Maine.

They've been restricting a number of parts to repair-only (guns returned to them), due to shrinking inventory, meaning they haven't been keeping enough parts on hand for retail sales (and sometimes even armorers have had a hard time getting certain parts). Hopefully, this condition will be resolved sometime in the near future.

FWIW, I haven't had any problem getting 3rd gen mag springs (mostly 9/.45) from S&W. The same mag spring is used in all the 3rd gen .45's, and there's still a bunch of them out there in use. The mags can get back-ordered, though. It's not been uncommon for me to experience variable waiting periods for 3rd gen mag orders, regardless of the type.
 
I got back into S&W 3rd Generation pistols back in early 2007. It started with a gun trade with my brother. As part of the trade, I got "back" a 4566 that I had earlier owned. It rekindled my love for the pistols. The 4566 needed a couple of parts (my brother is hard on pistols), so I contacted S&W Customer Service to order some. While I was chatting with the S&W rep, it became clear that parts for some 3rd Gens were getting in short supply and S&W would not be making anymore.

So, as I started hunting down 3rd generation pistols, I also began acquiring extra parts for each one I would buy. From 2007 to 2010 I spent a lot of money on hundreds of parts for the twenty plus 3rd Gens I found and bought. It turned out to be a smart move on my part. Many of the parts presently in my large parts kit are no longer available from S&W, Midway, Brownell or Gun Parts, e.g., the recoil spring guide for the 4506 (also for the 1006), part number 103200000. In addition, based on a recent posting on this forum, it appears that the side plate for the 5906 (also used in the 5903 and 6906), part number 106780000, has also disappeared.

S&W is only making additional parts for those 3rd generation pistols it is still making (on a limited basis) for LE. I'm not sure, but would not be surprised if S&W is holding those parts back for the LE agencies customers. Eventually, many of the 3rd Generation parts are going to disappear as "obsolete" just like those for the 2nd Generation pistols did.

Here is a example of what's going on with this situation:
The single stack 2nd generation Model 645 uses side plate, part number 106990000. It appears that early 3rd generation large frame single stack pistols (4506, 4566, 1006, 1066, 4516) used this same side plate until the late 1990s. Sometime after 1997, part number 106990000 was replaced by side plate, part number 108600000. The only significant difference between the two side plates is that the area around where the hammer pin is attached was strengthened, resulting in a little "bump" that sticks out above the top of the grip when the pistol is assembled. The 3rd generation parts lists were updated indicating part number 10860000. However, the parts list for the 645 was not so updated.

Interestingly, side plate 108600000 has now apparently disappeared. If you think about it, there is no reason for S&W to manufacture parts for these large frame 3rd generation pistols since they have not manufactured them for many years. Yesterday, while checking on part number 108600000 at Brownell (they're out), I happen to note that they did have part number 106990000 in stock. Since I have 8 S&W large frame single stack pistols, I decided to order 4 of these to go with the couple of 108600000 that were already in my parts kit. Not surprisingly, Brownell e-mailed me that they were sending me only two; the other two were placed on "back order." I won't be holding my breath for those two to show up. I may have gotten the last two of these babies out there.
​
Good luck to all looking for 3rd generation parts, IMHO, you'll need it. ;)
 
Hmmm......

In eighteen years of carrying and shooting S&W 3rd generation pistols, the only part - besides recoil springs and mag springs - I've needed was a mag catch for a 4516-3.

And I wouldn't have needed that, were it not a MIM part that fractured like the cheap pot metal it was.

You folks either shoot ALOT more than I do......or you're beating on those pistols, to need so many parts.

Extra sideplates? Are getting the grips on and off causing that? Seriously, what parts are you seeing break? Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: Fastbolt, what parts does the armorers manual suggest you keep on hand? For how many pistols?
 
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