W231 load for .38 158gr SWCHP?

[M3Stuart]

Well, live and learn. I started reloading last year. I read the Hogdon HP-38/Win 231 specs and thought the 3.1 to 3.7 listing for the 158gr LSWC actually meant that 3.7 hit the (non +P for older Smiths) pressure limit. I load gobs of this stuff with 3.4gr of either the HP-38 or W-231 and think its just fine for putting neat holes in paper. I load some at 3.2 gr when I'm teaching new shooters with the Model 10 or 64. I have yet to jam one in the barrel.

Edit: I don't have a chrono so I don't know the velocity - just the fps range in the manual. But I do know that these rounds hit POA=POI as far as I can see the bullseye (maybe 75' on a good day).

 

[rfd]

i started off .38spl loads with 3.3 grains of bullseye and a heavy metal 158 grain lrn, then bumped up to 3.8 grains. saw no difference in 15-25yd accuracy off a bench rest. 3.3 grains of be is just fine for me, but be is a dirty flake bugger, so ....

i'm now testing w231 spherical and i've seen 158 grain bullet start loads of between 3.1 and 3.6 grains and will stay with a start load of 3.3 grains, see how it goes.

 

[alwslate]

I have loaded 38spl 158 gr cast SWC loads with 231 in charges from
3.8 grs to 5.4 grs. 5.4 grs is the max charge with 158 gr JHPs listed
as +P in Speer # 11. Pressure is listed as being within industry standards for +P , 22,400 cup. Velocity with a cast bullet is around
1025 fps in my 4" barrel S&W. This is well above the velocity obtained
from typical factory 158 gr +P LHPs. Data for 231 varies considerably
between different manuals and frankly some of the data in Hodgdon's
manuals is subject to question. It is obvious that some data listed as
maximum with swaged lead bullets is not at max std pressure but is
max velocity without significant leading. This is common practice from
many sources, not just Hodgdon. My Lyman Pistol manual says +P
with 231 and their 158 gr plain base cast bullet starts at 5.2 grs. I
don't see the logic in choosing 158 gr swaged LHP bullets for a general
purpose-plinking load when cast SWCs are avaliable in bulk at good
prices. Anyway 4.0 to 4.8 grs = 800 fps to 940 fps in a 4" barrel with
cast bullets should meet most needs and within standard pressure
limits to boot.

 

[91B40]

158 gr. LSWC with 231

I have used 4.0 grains 231 behind many cast & swaged 158 grain lead bullets for many years. Not a screamer, but always accurate.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My standard range 158gr LSWC load is 4.0gr W231. It's not a super hot load and I have no idea why the Hodgdon load data lists a Max of 3.7gr! Hodgdon reports a pressure of only 14,600 CUP but the SAAMI limits are 17,000 PSI. That leaves a lot of room on top to safely increase the charge weight. The load i use wasn't near the Max years ago, it was just over the middle and it feels like it too...

 

[Goldstar225]

My standard target load is 4.0 grains W231, a pleasant and accrate load in my model 15, tolerable in my 642. If I want to step it up I go to 5.0 grains under a 158 SWC. the 5.0 load clocks at 950 FPS +/- out of a 4" barrel.

 

[bamacisa]

I have a Bonanza Bullseye powder unit that uses fixed rotors. The 3.5 rotor throws 4.2 grains of W231. This is my standard load of 160 grain bullets. This load is accurate and not too hot to use. I get many reloads out of 38 brass using this charge. I have been using this load for years with no problems and it is very accurate in most revolvers. I cast my own 38 bullets using wheel weights. I get no leading with this load. If you are using swaged bullets, I would suggest using 3.5 grains of W231. This load usually causes no leading and is accurate in most guns.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This load is accurate and not too hot to use. I get many reloads out of 38 brass using this charge.

I have been using the same 1200 pieces of Remington .38 Special brass for just about 7 years now and I have yet to have 1 piece fail with a similar load.

 

[J.S.H.]

3.9 gr of W231 ahead of a Rem 1.5 primer gives me 760 fps avg out of a 4inch-barrelled Model 64. This is with the RCBS 38-150-KT cast bullet which with my softer alloy runs right close to the 158gr bullet weight you are asking about. Keep in mind this is a lead bullet, can't tell if that is what you are asking about.
Hope this helps.

 

[ray45]

For light range loads I use 3.5 grains. Kills paper just fine. Why waste powder?

Tweek it for point of aim and group size , for your particular pistol. usually 4'ish grains in 38 special cases 158 gr swc and cci spp. 4 - 4.5 gr. W- 231 in 4" S&W 19.... works for me. You can boost it up a little for more power downrange. Awesome load!, for small game , target or plinking.

 

[hotrod150]

I've loaded many thousands of 45acp & a fair amount of 9mm using W231, so that's what I used when I recently started loading 38 special. (besides, that was the only handgun powder I had on hand). First load was 4.5 W231 behind a 148 gr hardcast DEWC, which shot pretty good. When I shot them up I bought a box of Speer 158 gr swaged lead SWC-HP but stuck with the same 4.5 gr charge. My old Speer manual #10 sez 4.4 gr is good for 878 fps out of a 6" barrel, so I figure that 4.5 load is good for somewhere between 800-850 (probably closer to 800) out of my 2" j-frames. It shoots well, fairly clean, and hits as close to point of aim as I do.
I don't wanna mess with different powders, charge weights, bullets, etc. (been there, done that), so I want one load for everything ( plinking, practice, self-defense, and midnight new year's eve shots into the air) and this non +P version of the "FBI load" is it for 38 special.

 

[hotrod150]

.....If you want SD loads then there are better powders for that.

Please elaborate.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

W231 is the only handgun powder I buy in bulk. I always have 2X 4lb jugs on the shelf. (4lbs of W231 is the same size jug as 8 lbs of H4895)

I load all my handgun calibers with W231 most times. I do experiment with other powders for specialized loads but always come back to W231. (.38 Special, .38 S&W, 9mm, .45 Auto, .45 Colt and sometimes magnum calibers too)

 

[Rule3]

Please elaborate.

"Generally" speaking slower powders will preform better (more FPS) out of a short barrel gun.

As Arch stated HP38/W 231 is my go to powder also.

For those that want to really hot rod the 38 special, check any manual for +P loads and even those are "mild" as they have to be within specs and liability.

I am not a believer myself. I just carry a 9mm

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/91534-duplicating-buffalo-bore-fbi-load.html

 

[rigrat]

Since you want the load for SWC-HP's then I'd think you aren't using the load for plinking, but self defense.
I'm trying Rimrock's gas checked LSWC-HP, and using W231, Bullseye and AA#2 to work up a load for each both in standard and +P loads. Since SAMMI _+P is 20,000 psi and most +P loads listed are in the 17,000 psi range you have some room to work up your load. I'll be using a chrono to work my loads up with and feel what ever can get me around 850 fps with a snub will work ok with the LSWC-HP's of 5 Brinell hardness.
Follow what even you can find close to your components and start working up your load. You should be safe to start @ 4.0 grains as that is what allot are shooting with no problem and work from there.

Using Rimrock LSWC's with 4.0 gr of W231 I'm averaging 700fps out of my Smith m64 2" and @ 4.9 gr, I average 880 fps. If I'm going to just punch holes with the LSWC, I'll use 4' ish gr.

 

[hotrod150]

....Using Rimrock LSWC's with 4.0 gr of W231 I'm averaging 700fps out of my Smith m64 2" and @ 4.9 gr, I average 880 fps. If I'm going to just punch holes with the LSWC, I'll use 4' ish gr.

That extrapolates out to about 800 fps using 4.5 grains. I wouldn't mind a bit more velocity but am satisfied with that- esp since my Little Dandy #7 rotor throws a perfect 4.5 gr charge.

 

[Maxxus]

38 special wadcutter load

3 to 3.1 grains WW231 is the load I shoot in my Model 52's.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I like 4.5g W231 under a Lyman 358156. I shoot it in J frames through N frames.

Looking at all the data I have, some going back to the 50's and comparing it to today's, IMO this is more or less the standard 38Spl round of old.

I like to plink with what I would use in the most extreme of circumstances. I don't own softball loads for any firearm.

Practice with what you'd use.

That said, they aren't stout, in fact they are downright civilized.

 

[tacotime]

I think what someone said was right - the Hodgdon website loads appear to have been reduced below other load manuals, I assume for perceived liability reasons.

If it's a Speer bullet, it's probably a good idea to use a current Speer manual, not one several editions ago, since powder formulas can change.

 

[MMA10mm]

I have loaded 38spl 158 gr cast SWC loads with 231 in charges from
3.8 grs to 5.4 grs. 5.4 grs is the max charge with 158 gr JHPs listed
as +P in Speer # 11. Pressure is listed as being within industry standards for +P , 22,400 cup. Velocity with a cast bullet is around
1025 fps in my 4" barrel S&W. This is well above the velocity obtained
from typical factory 158 gr +P LHPs. Data for 231 varies considerably
between different manuals and frankly some of the data in Hodgdon's
manuals is subject to question. It is obvious that some data listed as
maximum with swaged lead bullets is not at max std pressure but is
max velocity without significant leading. This is common practice from
many sources, not just Hodgdon. My Lyman Pistol manual says +P
with 231 and their 158 gr plain base cast bullet starts at 5.2 grs. I
don't see the logic in choosing 158 gr swaged LHP bullets for a general
purpose-plinking load when cast SWCs are avaliable in bulk at good
prices. Anyway 4.0 to 4.8 grs = 800 fps to 940 fps in a 4" barrel with
cast bullets should meet most needs and within standard pressure
limits to boot.

This is a very accurate and informative post right here. I've loaded a few hundred pounds of W231 (SMP231 is the label for manufacturers) personally and professionally, and what you see posted above matches my experience. My only addition to that post is that I've found 231 to ocassionally have wide swings in burn rate, which MAY be partially a factor for the variances observed in load data from different sources.

My recommendations are:
4.0grs & 158gr LSWC/LRN = Std. Pressure Target/Service load
4.4grs & 158gr LSWC/LRN = Max Std. to very low +P load

I have loaded up to 5.6grs with a long-loaded Lyman #358156 (in 38 brass, but only for use in a 357 Magnum revolver!), but the results were less than satisfactory. I do not recommend exceeding the two loads above, and I think they give the best results.