9 vs 45

[JYogi]

Depends on hand size for one....

I am a 45 fan BUT my hands are too small for
a double stack 45 so I went 357 Sig and its the best
of all worlds for me....

Luckily ammo cost is really not an issue/concern but I do also
own every gun I have in .357 Sig also in 9 mm...

When I want to carry a 45 I carry a 1911

Summer time I tend to carry my Rohrbaugh R9S or a J frame 38 snub as I always tend to print when wearing just a T in the summer

 

[MIST]

I have the utmost confidence in my caliber(s) and ammunition of choice as well as my pistol(s) of choice. I'm also confident in my skills and personal resolve to stay alive and come out on top in any lethal force confrontation. In my opinion, that's what really matters.

 

[jcswi888]

Again, just a friendly conversation. And still not trying to argue, but the attached FBI report does say it all. To get the same level of impact of a 45, the 1 pound weight had to be dropped nearly twice as high as the 9mm. But, whatever, I love my 9mm too, much more than my .45. It is just not the same or near the same, their are several cartridges in between actually. Thats all I am saying.

 

[rxbrew]

Well if the 9mm is so good then why does the FBI use the 40? More Polic depts use the 40 Vs the 9mm.

 

[jcswi888]

And the Navy Seals went back to .45

 

[Lost Lake]

The point of the FBI study is that they are all effective, but technically a .45 is larger than a 9mm so if you miss by a fraction of an inch using a 9, the larger bullet may inflict the fatal blow.

Personally I believe the 9, 40 and .45 are all good, as well as the 41 mag, .357 mag, .38+P and others. So what I have decided (for me) is to carry the weapon I like, I shoot well and has the advantage over the others (for me).

I think it is irresponsible to believe 5 shots from a .45 are as good as 17 from a 9mm. But that's my opinion. Yours may differ, and thats fine.

I pray I never need to find out if I'm right.

 

[harvester1]

The size of a hole from a .45 is over half again as big as that from a 9mm. .159 square inches for the 45 compared to .099 for the 9mm.

 

[Lost Lake]

The size of a hole from a .45 is over half again as big as that from a 9mm. .159 square inches for the 45 compared to .099 for the 9mm.

And your point is??????

Did you read the FBI report or not?

And I'd say the 9mm hole is .102 before expanding. Area = pi*r^2 or .18^2 x 3.1415 = .102.

After expansion (which you cannot depend on) they would be much closer.

 

[rxbrew]

Well it's simple physics. The weight of the bullet I think is the key. The 45 is twice the weight of the 9mm. Yes there are heavier bullets for the 9mm now then there used to be, but the heavier bullet moving at slower speed will transfer more of it's energy to the body that the faster lighter bullet. The 9mm is better than the 380 and 40 is better than 9mm and the 45 is better than the 40. Read some of the writtter like Elmer Keith who was a big fan of big slow moving bullets on game.Don't get me wrong I think the 9mm is a great range weapon . Fun to shoot, cheaper and I own one and love to shoot it. My girls love it because of the recoil. By all means if you can shoot the 9mm better than a 45 then by all means use it with confidence. The 1911 has been around for over 100 years and is still the most used handgun ever with good reason. It just plain works. The Special Forces that can choose any weapon they want are all going back to the 45.

 

[Fat B]

I read the FBI report and I see some flaws right off of the bat.

It refers to knock-down power and how a bullet simply will not knock down a target. But it also refers to temporary cavities and how bullets stretch the tissue which then rebounds or unstretches. Is all of that tissue stretching enough to at least spin the guy around? Or put some pressure on the person to knock them off balance? Or knock off their aim if they are shooting at you? I think so.

So when the report points out that hollow point bullets that have expanded upon impact end up leaving the same size hole as a solid tip bullet, it misleads the reader in thinking they are going to be the same. (Page 6, paragraph 5) I'm not buying that 100%. Then I read farther and it claims that (page 11 paragraph 3) that hollow point bullets increase the area disintergrated by the bullet due to their expansion. But they only happen in 2/3 of occurances. Which seems like pretty good odds to me. Anyone else see this conflict?

The report points out that similar reports claims that a larger, slower bullet is more effective than a faster smaller round regardless of penetration. So the 45 is better than the 40 and the 9? the 45 beats the 10mm? So obviously, that RII report was wrong. The FBI report came to the conclusion that... crush mechanism is king and the stretch mechanism is temporary and shouldn't hold too much weight. It does end by giving the edge to the bigger bullet as long as the bigger bullet penetrates. So bigger is better but not as great as one might think is the conclusion of the report from what I got. Which i think is what the other report was getting at that the FBI report claimed was wrong. Hmmmm....

I'm not saying that the report is bad, on the contrary it was a good report. i just think there are other factors that go into everything than can be explained in a 16 page report. Such as the internal bleeding rate from 9 vs. 45 and other unanswered questions.

 

[Shielded]

I think through all of the posts this may have been said but if not here goes... Shot placement... If the recoil or whatever of a bigger caliber makes you less accurate when just shooting, then when a SD situation happens your really going to be in trouble. Shoot what you can hit with consistently. Most threats aren't going to stick around when you start shooting anyway. Good shot placement by even a .25acp is better than complete misses by a 45acp.

 

[jcswi888]

These last few posts get my point across better than I can. Personally, I think the 9 is a perfect carry gun for myself. I just couldn't not give my 2 cents when someone says a 9mm is nearly the same as a .45. I love this site though!

 

[jaykellogg]

The Special Forces that can choose any weapon they want are all going back to the 45.

By international law, military is not allowed to use anything but FMJ. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Modern defense ammo has breathed new life into the 9mm.

Bottom line is there really are no wrong choices.
9mm= good penetration, cheaper, ammo, more magazine capacity
.40cal= Very good penetration, good knockdown power, relatively snappy, good magazine capacity.
.45ACP= fameous for knockdown power, relatively expensive, less penetration, less mag capacity. Unique recoil, more of a "push" than a snap. easier to shoot than .40, but probably less than the 9mm.

 

[Martya]

OK I'll jump in- (with more questions than answers for consideration)

I had a 45 already so when it was time to acquire another pistol I chose another 45. I am not a dedicated range visitor, so my practice is for defensive improvements, not bull's eye. In my imagined scenarios and in my 2-7 yd range practice I usually take 1 or 2 or 3 shots from different positions, occasionally I practice a double-tap at two targets.


Suppose you are limited to 10 round mags, then which would you choose?

In whatever scenario you can picture that you are shooting at a bad guy(s), how many shots do you think you might get off, or need to get off? Outside of those states limiting mags to 10 rounds, do you think you will need all 14 or 17 rounds in the 9mm mags? Do you think you could get all 14 or 17 off before the drug crazed zombie gets within arm's reach? Or, given you are suddenly surrounded by several dedicated miscreants with overtly bad intentions, do you think the 14 or 17 rounds will make a difference? If you are good and could take out 1 or 2 of these multiple miscreants how much more time will it take for the rest of them to overcome you? Then how many rounds will be left in your (now their) mag?

Excepting the completely demented drug-crazed zombie, it is my opinion that when you start sending deadly projectiles at someone who has considered you or a nearby citizen as a target, the two likely last things they will consider is what the diameter and what the speed of those projectiles are. You will likely change their mind with the 1st or 2nd projectile.



On the other hand, if all you need is a range gun choose the one with the cheapest good ammo.

 

[Lost Lake]

Yet news reports don't follow this theory often. Police are reloading and firing multiple magazines. We just read a story where the old man ran out of rounds and was beaten.

If I am limited to ten rounds I want the .45, hands down, no question. But if I can squeak in a few extra rounds using a 40, I like that. And even more in a 9 is fine.

From what I've read, there really isn't much difference between all the handgun rounds once you get above .380 (which is a 9mm with less powder). I think (this is me, you may think differently) more rounds is better. With a 30%ish hit rate (documented from police reports of actual rounds that hit target by trained police) if you carry a 5 or 6 shot gun, you may hit an attacker twice. If you have two thugs you may hit each one once. If you think you can do better than the average cop then my hat's off to you, I think I may do worse. I want more capacity as long as the bullets are similar, which has been shown to be the case.

So yes placement is king, but I am not staking my life on being able to hit a bad guy in the skull, or that he will crumple and start begging forgiveness when he hears the first bang. Weren't we just discussing shooting from 20' to 30' if a guy is running at us with a knife? He'll be running, ducking, dodging and I'll be shaking, yelling and backing away.... I'll take as many shells as I can get.

 

[bp231986]

I agree with Lost Lake, the more rounds the better for me, because you will be scared, you will be shaking, you will be moving, you will be missing, heck you might even just poop your pants. Had an officer (Rookie) that got shot at and when he returned fire he had his head turned away so he could not even see and probably had his eyes closed out of fear. Lead was found YARDS from his target, if he would have been the only officer there he would most likely be dead. That after noon he cleared his desk, wasnt made he wanted to leave.

But like Lost Lake said its a personal choice, for ME i like the 9mm, i trust it and stand by it, but thats ME.

 

[AZ115]

The 9mm is more than adequate and underrated. I believe it's got a bad stigma by People who don't know much about it, other than it looks much smaller than a .45 therefore it's no good. With quite a few calibers filling the gap from 9mm to say .44magmun. the 9mm may seem small, but it's got quite a bite!

I see the same thing with .22 riffles. They are way underrated and people think the .22 is only good for taking out squirrels. I've seen coyotes and javelinas go down just as effectively with the "puny little" .22.

9mm for me, even though I'm loving my new M&P40C!

 

[Squat]

When I took a CCW class, the instructor said he sometimes carries a .22 when what he's wearing dictates. He said he's had lots of people scoff at that, but not one of those people volunteered to be shot with the round, I found that interesting.

 

[oneminute]

Find a range that has both to rent and try them out.

Try shooting them both one handed also. Buy the one you find the most controllable and you get the best hits with. I say one handed because often times your other hand may be busy (injured, being used to stabilize yourself or push off the ground, fighting, etc.)

The whole 9mm vs .45 debate is a dead issue and best left out of your decision. Google Dr Gary Roberts and you will find plenty of information indicating that there is virtually no difference between modern 9mm and 45 performance in real world shootings.

I have owned and carried the M&P9 and the M&P45 fs. I sold the 9 because I was not as accurate with it and I have found that I can control both equally. My wife and I both carry M&P45 fs off duty so there was the ammunition/magazine commonality issue to consider for me as well.

Pay your money, take your chances, get the one you like. They both beat screaming for help or blowing a whistle.

 

[NICKTHEFISH]

My 2 cents

My first firearm was a Taurus PT145 in .45 cal. I like stopping power over quantity of bullets.
Yesterday I traded said Taurus + Astra 357magnum + cash for a new M&P45fs!
I currently have a full size m&P40 and for my birthday in August, the gun fairy is bringing me a VTAC 9mm!!!

I will carry the 45 most of the time, if not all of the time. The 40 & 9 will be range and IDPA firearms.

BTW, I love all my children equally!!!