Why have a thumb safety on an M&P Pistol!

[kris7047th]

The reason I want an external safety on a handgun, is in the event that a bad guy grabs my handgun, chances are he will not know it has a safety giving me an advantage to get my gun back without being shot.

Is it really that hard to put a safety on a handgun? I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a good quality handgun with a safety.

wOw .. really? You shouldn't need external gun safeties if you know how to properly handle a gun and have trained and practice. IMO, your finger off the trigger, until needed and your brain should be sufficient.

The safety on the Shield is a non issue as I keep it disengaged. I believe S&W put it there because they knew people would improperly jam the gun into a pocket (and quite possibly with objects) causing a AD.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Im sorry but this is by far the dumbest thread iv read on this forum. If the safety botheres buy another gun. Its a safety incase the trigger is pulled. There are instances were ppl put finger on trigger on accident and pull the trigger. Quit bitching overnstupid **** please.

Since you've just joined your post can be forgiven-If you read some more you will see a lot of much dumber treads that have been posted
We ain't happy unless we're fighting!
Me-I owned one without and have always been leery about not having a safety on it-I'm kinda a belts and suspenders guy. Sold it and got one with the safety-it's amphibious which I need since I'm a southpaw. I like the idea of a safety on a striker fired gun as I carry it in my car and NOT in a holster and the thought of the trigger snagging on something in the console...well
But as I said before, I do NOT have safeties on my revolvers. Big difference between the amount of force on a trigger to fire a double action revolver at rest as opposed to firing an M&P with a round chambered. Call me Mr. Dumb S*** if you want, but I like safeties on my guns (except magazine safeties-don't like magazine safeties no. )

Take the Shield for instance-what an absolutely DUMB name!!!! Every time I see a "shield " thread I think panty liners

Now back to your post-if you want to see some really dumb threads, they're out there but you have to look

 

[SMMAssociates]

Cajun:

"Amphibious"?

About the console: May I suggest a cheap holster secured to something in the console.... This could make re-holstering safer at little cost (i.e., Uncle Mike's ).

bpickell:

Presuming your BG has any jail time, he's already been to the "school of crime", and probably knows how to switch off the safety on about any gun he's likely to run into. And double for LEO's weapons.... Besides, it's pretty simple - if there is a safety lever, it goes up or down. All he has to know is which way is "Fire", and unless he's just grabbed it out of your holster, or in your initial presentation, it's pretty likely to be "the other way" from where it is....

(There are some S&W guns, in particular, where the safety lever is a decocker, and springs back. The BG can ignore this type....)

Some guys carry S&W guns without a decocker (but with a safety) with the safety off - the fool thing is hard to move....

Just IMHO, the tough part is for us to learn to switch the safety off during presentation. Getting it back on before a BG can get it from you isn't likely to happen.... And, it's quite clear to me, at least, that you must turn the safety off during presentation or the gun is just an expensive club....

So, flipping the safety on (or dropping a magazine to engage a magazine safety) when somebody's trying to grab your weapon, is going to take more time (and probably more luck) than you have.

MANY downsides to carrying on an empty chamber, but that's really a heck of a lot safer in a grab situation....

(Many years ago, when I was working - rent-a-cop - in uniform, I used to run into suggestions to carry my "visible" sidearm empty, and a good BUG to actually use, should it be necessary. Probably not a good idea for concealed carry folks....)

IMHO (I haven't handled one yet) the Shield's safety is such that leaving it on or off is your choice, and isn't likely to change it's state without you actually doing something to it. Not so, IMHO, with the larger M&P's. My 40C has never bothered to do it, but the rather large ambi lever set is asking for it. Since my EDC is an Officer's-sized 1911, I'm trained up on flipping the safety off anyway, which makes it a non-problem for me, but I don't see it as impossible. There is a mod out there for making the thumb safety stiffer (or looser - your pick) on the M&P's, and you can do the same to a 1911.

Adding a thumb safety to an existing gun? That can take serious changes to the gun's internals.... It's pretty clear that the thumb safety on the older M&P's required a completely different (and minus the "Hilary Lock") verson of the sear block, as well as a some new parts. Some areas require that fool lock, making the thumb safety version a tad harder to sell in those states....

It also helps when the design allows for an easy "upgrade" - the change in the M&P's looks to have pretty simple. I'm not sure if the original design presumed that this would be done or not. It appears that the thumb safety was designed in the original version. Looks to me like an ambi version for the Shield probably would be pretty easy to come up with, but as mentioned before, the cost of the mold changes to the plastic "frame" could be a killer.

Overall, don't expect to add a thumb safety to a gun that didn't come with one....

Regards,

 

[bpickell]

wOw .. really? You shouldn't need external gun safeties if you know how to properly handle a gun and have trained and practice. IMO, your finger off the trigger, until needed and your brain should be sufficient.

The safety on the Shield is a non issue as I keep it disengaged. I believe S&W put it there because they knew people would improperly jam the gun into a pocket (and quite possibly with objects) causing a AD.

I don't understand where the condescension is coming from. I never said anything about me wanting the manual safety because I don't know how to handle a gun safely.

I want one in the event a bad guy were to grab my gun from my holster.

And not every bad guy on the planet knows how every safety works. A safety on my dads 1911 saved his life ten years ago. A bad guy grabbed his gun and tried to shoot him with it. The safety was on and my dad was able to pull his backup and shoot the guy before he could disengage the safety.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Why would anyone want a thumb safety on an M&P so now bear with me on this? The M&P like the Glock is a striker fired weapon and there is no hammer to strike the firing pin which could possibly fire if the weapon were to be dropped but there is no hammer on an M&P!

While I do have one M&P that does have one just like my old model 59 it also has a mag disconnect the same as my model 59 but I bought it for a good price and don't even use the safety as it is unnecessary.

The only way a striker fired weapon will go off is if the trigger is pulled and with the cantilever or two stage trigger design that M&P has this almost has to be a purposeful act.

I own 5 M&P's 7 if you count the .357SIG barrels I have for my 40c and 40 fullsize and all are always fully loaded at all times even in the safe. I have had a Model 59 since 1982 and the same is true with it and it nor any other weapon has ever gone off without me pulling the trigger. Now I do chamber a round in them all and with the model 59 since it has a hammer I do engage the safety and disengage when ready to fire the weapon, it is natural as I am sure thumb safety is with those that carry the 1911 type weapons.

Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!

THIS is why. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...fatal-accident-m-p-detroit.html#post136611518 Poor girl was working her way through college when BAM

 

[kbm6893]

The internet has allowed mall ninjas to multiply at a geometric rate, causing too many gun owners to believe that "the only safety is between my ears" and "a safety is a good way to get yourself killed". it's an absolute joke. 99.999% of gun owners will never fire a shot in a life or death scenario, yet they handle a loaded weapon multiple times aday, where there is a very real possibility of an ND, especially since they're so supremely confident that "my safety is between my ears". Ppeople screw up, even experts. Take the time to LEARN how to properly manipulate a safety and it's not an issue. for every 1 scenario you can give me of a safety causing a death (not thinking it's on and pulling the trigger- that's a Darwin Award winner), but actually not being able to fire when you need to, and I'll show you 100 where the lack of a safety caused a death or injury. Every night, I draw my 3913 and flick off safe 100 times. Takes less than 10 minutes. Flicking off that safety adds no time to my draw, and it is as automatic as stepping on the brake pedal before shifting into drive. These striker fired guns are actually MARKETED as being "so simple you need a minimal amount of training to be proficient". The ONE thing that should NOT be "so simple even a caveman can do it" is a firearm. It's the reason police departments even went to them, so they don't have to spend as much time on the range.

The NYPD authorized three guns, the Glock 19, S&W 5946, and SIG 226. At the time I retired, NOT ONE ND was with the SIG or S&W, both hammer fired. EVERY ONE of them was ith a Glock.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

Most guns are designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled. However, sometimes people have a brain fart and stick their finger into trigger guard when they shouldn't.

Ask the DC police why their locker rooms wound up with holes in the walls after they switched to Glocks.

 

[wolfpackpanther]

I think it's what you're accustomed to. I grew up around long guns with safeties and carried a Colt 1911....8 hours a day....7 days a week for 3 months as a permanent gate guard overseas. My M&P doesn't have it...but if I'd checked it out a little closer when I bought it...it would have it.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Can't keep a good thread down

 

[VMaxSplat]

Can someone come up with a good reason to have a thumb safety on a striker fired weapon, I would sure like to hear it because I can see no logical reason for one in the first place!

I'll give you a few reasons for the safety:

• safer reholstering
• contract requirements
• 1911 shooters prefer them
• officer survival in the event of a snatched weapon

There, now you know.

 

[M29since14]

The internet has allowed mall ninjas to multiply at a geometric rate...
Ppeople screw up [all the time!], even experts.

Most guns are designed to not fire unless the trigger is pulled. However...

I think it's what you're accustomed to...

I don't know what Shield06 is talking about! I think this has been a great thread. Just look at the wisdom!

My apologies for trying to "improve" Kbm6893's post. It really didn't need it.

 

[kbm6893]

I don't know what Shield06 is talking about! I think this has been a great thread. Just look at the wisdom!

My apologies for trying to "improve" Kbm6893's post. It really didn't need it.

Nice to hear from some sensible gun owners, M29! Don't you laugh when you go to the range and see the new shooters wielding their Glocks and other similar weapons and obviously not knowing what they are doing!

be well.

 

[M29since14]

Trust me, I don't laugh. My only concern is in staying out of their way!

Have you ever noticed how it is never just one man with his pistol, practicing and minding his own business? There is ALWAYS an audience.

 

[USMCGrunt]

I prefer one and my M&P45 has one. My first handgun was a 1911 so I am very comfortable with the safety on an M&P as well. Now I have been around firearms since I was 6 (I'm 42 so you do the math since I run out of finger and toes) and have been an instructor now for 6 years so I tend to think I'm not gun dumb. The other reason I tend to think I'm not gun dumb is because I also know how the design works. When the slide is forward, the striker is fully retracted and held in place by the sear. Hmm, kind of like a 1911 with it's hammer cocked and the hammer is held in that cocked position by the sear. The trigger of the M&P is hinged. The 1911 has a grip safety. Yeah, if you drop a pre-80 series 1911 you can have a discharge but the 80 series 1911 and M&P both feature feature a firing pin block that prevents the firing pin from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled. I have yet to meet the instructor that advocates the carrying of a 1911 with one in the chamber, hammer cocked and the safety in the off position! Now why is that and what is the difference between the 1911 and the M&P? If we go by the "Blackhawk Down" mentality of waving a finger in the air and proclaiming, "this is my safety", why the heavy triggers? Why not have a carry gun with a sub-2 pound match trigger? Hey, if we're always going to keep our finger off the trigger, why not? It's a lot easier to shoot, right? No, before you consider somebody "gun-dumb", you might want to be more familiar with the inner workings of the gun in question.

 

[MP22]

Just keep the safety in the "off" position and stop whining if you don't like the safety.....or buy a Glock. Now Problem solved.

 

[JaPes]

Just keep the safety in the "off" position and stop whining if you don't like the safety.....or buy a Glock. Now Problem solved.

...or go purchase the M&P pistol variant with no safety.

 

[gtoppcop]

Houdini,

My gunsmith is now a factory-trained M&P armorer. Before relinquishing his M&P 45 to a valued friend, he made the piece the best he could with his new-found skills. A 3.5lbs trigger and other mods made it a wonderful shooter.

Enter his good friend who was out of work and needed a pistol for his armed security job in Los Angeles. One night, his friend was jumped by several 'Cholos' and was relieved of his M&P.

My gunsmith's friend (mid 50s and a nice guy) couldn't understand when the lead 'Cholo' was pointing the gun at him the muzzle dipped several times. My gunsmith (b.burris handle on this forum) told him that the reason was because he had it on safe and that the new owner was attempting to dispatch the former owner.

I'm a 3rd Gen guy. The safeties ARE the reason...

 

[sshakrr]

Just bought an M&P 9 w/thumb safety. Get it on sunday. Took me a while to find one with it. Like the range kit, but no safety. Its all about what you want. My guns, my options.

 

[SSGT Pride]

If only his safety were on!

1. He's obviously thinks he's smart enough not to need one! (Boy was he WRONG!)

2. He's stupid enough to bring a loaded gun (And Demonstrate with it) into a classroom of children!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

 

[SSGT Pride]

Have Another!

Original Upload, I Just Shot Myself! - YouTube