Does a sign prempt your right to carry?

[Speer4]

If a person has a concealed carry permit, can any business legally prohibit you from carrying it on their premises simply by posting a sign?

I have been seeing these signs pop up all over the place that say guns not allowed on the premises. I don't have a concealed carry permit yet, but am thinking about it and wondering how often I would be required to go back and lock it in the car. I've had things stolen from my car, so I would not be too comfortable leaving it in the car.

Watched a video of a woman who had a permit and went to a restaurant that did not allow guns, so she left it in the car. A lunatic came in and shot a bunch of people to death, including her parents. I guess if you carry it and don't have to use it, nobody would really ever know, but if you had to use it, you would be alive but in prison. Odd choice to have to make.

 

[jwh32]

The "no guns Allowed" on the AMC Theater in Colorado did work for 99% of the people I think.


john

 

[RedBaronRX7]

My take is, that it would be up to the establishment to press charges on the violation, if they notice you are packing.
I don't think they will, but you would have to do some explaining, given the high state of alert now and it will cost you some serious money to defend.
Given that, it is not a place protected by the law like courts, government buildings, airports, schools, bars, etc.

 

[MP22]

The training I got here in Kentucky said to honor the sign. I always have done so....or simply refuse to give them my business.

 

[PDL]

You need to read up on your state laws.

Some states say the signs must be obeyed, some say they can be ignored.

In any case, if the owner or his representative asks you to leave for whatever reason, you need to leave the place.

As it turns out, in your location, the signs have the force of law.

Here are two useful and accurate sites.

Handgunlaw.us

USA Carry - Your #1 Concealed Carry Resource and Community

 

[airman]

I'm in Texas. There are two places I visit regularly. One says no guns, the other says no unlicensed guns. Neither is legal, so....
I do pay attention to legal signs.

 

[airman]

Wait. I didn't answer the question.

A sign may restrict where you can carry. Laws and regulations also restrict how you can carry. The 2nd amendment declares you can carry.
The Bible says be armed. So I am.

 

[dougb1946]

A business does not need a sign to trespass you out the door for carrying. Before getting a MN Carry Permit, you have to take a class that covers law and use of a firearm. Find a good class, not a 2 or 3 hour flyby. While the 2A gives you the right to be armed, you also have a duty to respect the rights of others. Your rights as a gun owner may end where their rights as property owners begin.

 

[Speer4]

Thanks all! I especially appreciate the links. They really helped.
Sure are a lot of laws out there.

-Mike-

 

[Shooting Padre]

My MN class took six hours, well taught. Here if there is a sign, carry is prohibited.

 

[bluegrassarms]

The training I got here in Kentucky said to honor the sign. I always have done so....or simply refuse to give them my business.

I sometimes do, sometimes don't depending more on location, type of business/event and time of day. Your policy is a good one, esp. just not giving them your business, and I try to avoid them as well but I don't pay any attention to them if I have to go in.

I'm a Ky instructor and the most interesting discussions we have in class outside just the gun part is where you can and can't carry and how people respond to businesses posting the signs. It's not a crime to ignore the sign, all they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse then it's trespass, but of course it's highly unlikely they'll ask since they won't know. It still leaves the question though of whether to observe it or not. Opinions vary wildly between people in the classes.

I'm no lawyer and I'm just speaking as me, not an instructor, but personally I liken it to the "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign. You can walk in without a shirt on (and if you're Erin Andrews I even encourage it). That in and of itself isn't a crime. They can then either serve you and ignore their policy, which is fine, or they can ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave that's now a crime, trespass, and they can call the police. You can also choose whether to respect their policies and what they want in their business or you can ignore them and try to get by anyway.

Of course there are few such places in Kentucky. Not sure how I'd handle being under the rules some of our brethren on here endure who live in far less friendly confines.


Back to the OP -- As has been said it varies by state. I highly recommend a good class, esp on the law. Ky's is a 6 hour course with 2.5 hours of DVD video on the law. Dry as heck, but lots of important info on the responsibilities of carry. Definitely worth having.

 

[bluegrassarms]

My MN class took six hours, well taught. Here if there is a sign, carry is prohibited.

I'm torn on it b/c I believe in the rights of businesses to conduct their business as they please, but it ends at denying Constitutional rights, so I end up saying that they shouldn't be able to restrict cc.

Ky did a good job of at least making it consistent state wide. No local preemption, no business preemption beyond the list of specific places carry is not allowed. It can be trespass if you refuse to leave but there's no crime committed by walking in while carrying.

Agree or disagree with the details, at least you know where you stand from border to border. Hard to believe the Ky legislature got something right...

 

[LenS]

Legally speaking it all depends on your state law.

All the major shopping center chains and theater chains post their places as "no guns allowed" . . . it's corporate policy.

In my state, these signs have no legal authority whatsoever and I readily ignore them.

Criminals don't obey any signs! What you decide to do (assuming it isn't illegal) is up to you!

 

[Buckey08]

One of the problems with getting older is that at times I forget how to read?

 

[OKFC05]

I guess if you carry it and don't have to use it, nobody would really ever know, but if you had to use it, you would be alive but in prison.

Or in OK pay a $500 max fine for misdemeanor trespass.
Don't guess.
READ your state's laws. You might be surprised.

 

[nipster]

I'm in Texas. There are two places I visit regularly. One says no guns, the other says no unlicensed guns. Neither is legal, so....
I do pay attention to legal signs.

Texas is one of the states where "No Gun" signs are legally binding. So you might want to watch out for that.

My state (Florida), the signs are not binding.

The bottom line is, know your state and local laws regarding the subject

My take is, that it would be up to the establishment to press charges on the violation, if they notice you are packing.
I don't think they will, but you would have to do some explaining, given the high state of alert now and it will cost you some serious money to defend.
Given that, it is not a place protected by the law like courts, government buildings, airports, schools, bars, etc.

The most they can do is ask you to leave. The fact that you are carrying does not give them the right to prosecute you for trespassing. If you choose not to leave, then, that's on you...

 

[Hapworth]

Best advice has already been given (a few times): read up on your state's laws.

In my neck of the woods, law says explicitly that any privately owned residence or business can declare itself a gun free zone and my CCW permit's moot.

 

[StatesRightist]

NO, you are responsible for protecting yourself/family. You are also responsible for living with knowingly violating a statute and the consequences. Such is the nature of a Democracy and being a man.

 

[Hapworth]

I'm torn on it b/c I believe in the rights of businesses to conduct their business as they please, but it ends at denying Constitutional rights, so I end up saying that they shouldn't be able to restrict cc.

There's valid argument in both directions, but ultimately it's not anyone's right to behave as they please on someone else's private property -- regardless of whether or not that behavior has some constitutional coverage.

Can I conduct a gun control rally on your front porch?

 

[Hapworth]

NO, you are responsible for protecting yourself/family. You are also responsible for living with knowingly violating a statute and the consequences. Such is the nature of a Democracy and being a man.

Goes without saying -- I'd rather violate a misdemeanor carry law and successfully protect myself or loved ones rather than otherwise, if it ever came to such an easy choice, but the OP's question was whether or not a business can legally prohibit him from carrying in their establishment, and the answer is "yes" if state or local law permits.