Carrying where "No Guns" signs are posted.

[venomballistics]

in some states the sign has force of law, others the sign is just an opinion.
I rather like the states where the sign has no force of law. Not so much that I may carry in spite of it, but rather to save wear and tear on my holster when I travel. its in, out, gone, and cross em off the list for the next time through.

 

[G.T. Smith]

If your weapon is truly concealed, no one will know that you are carrying unless there is a critical situation that requires you to pull, at which point I would think everyone would be grateful except possibly the offender. I don't think much about it and I don't check every door I pass through to check for signs prohibiting firearms. I used to be more self conscience about CCW, but I am comfortable with it now. I don't worry about printing because I pretty much dress around my weapon.
It seems like a lot of the places that have the "no firearms" signs, are the places that I would think would welcome a person with a legally concealed weapon, such as banks and such.
Peace,
gordon

 

[mc5aw]

Carrying onto the premises of a "No carry" establishment is a moot point until a person has to voluntarily make the firearm visible, or somehow allows the CCW to be seen. It's another lawsuit waiting to happen.

"No carry" policies in commercial establishments have nothing to do with usurping individual rights ... they are proprietary conduct policies, not far removed from "No shirts, no shoes, no service" ... I have a right to do most anything I want on my property, from cutting the grass, to letting my dog dig holes, to relieving a full bladder on the black walnut tree out back. If I go into Store X, I have to comport myself differently based on that store's policies. Are my rights violated or impugned in any way? Absolutely not. If Store X requires no carry, okay ... I either patronize Store X armed only with non-firearm items (flashlight, knife, pepper spray, etc.), or go to Store Y.

 

[poordevil]

Here in AZ if one carries in a store where a sign asks that you not carry, it only becomes a problem IF they notice your hidden handgun and they ask you to leave. If you do not leave, then you are trespassing. What ever happens after that, happens.

So,, if you carry some place the management does not want you to carry, AND they discover you and ask you to leave, be cool and leave, no harm no fowl

 

[CigarGuy]

<shaking head> I still don't understand WHY you would WANT to give stores like that your business. I mean, isn't it enabling bad behaviour?
Anyways, I'm done, I'll just slink away now......

 

[blujax01]

So what I'm reading from quite a few is that it's not cheating unless you get caught?

And as far as there being a difference between my private property and someone else who uses their private property to conduct business - no there is not. People are "invited" as long as they comply with the law and the rules of the establishment. If the law says that if I put a "no guns" sign up you are not allowed to carry in my establishment then you are not invited if you have a gun. Pretty simple concept.

 

[blujax01]

<shaking head> I still don't understand WHY you would WANT to give stores like that your business. I mean, isn't it enabling bad behaviour?
Anyways, I'm done, I'll just slink away now......

Oh don't misunderstand - I walk away from these places.

 

[ric_in_or]

I have one concern - that is can you see the sign?

I was in a national chain jewelry store, then I saw someone post that the place was a sheeple zone.

When we went back, I had to really look for the sign -- I had to be suspicious -- once I saw it, I stayed in the car and let the wife do her business inside.

We found a different store after that.

 

[ric_in_or]

My second concern - and I am not a lawyer and recognize that local laws will impact this -

Say you are knowingly inside a no carry posted place of business and have to use your firearm.

Are you not subject to civil lawsuits from everyone in the place - owner, employees, customers, the "victim" -- those walking by, those in the next business owner.
You knowingly put their lives at risk.

I am not saying not to do it ... what are the odds ... better to be judged by 200 than carried by 6 (or something)

And, I /believe/ many situations are deescalated by display of the equalizer - where no further action is needed.
Walking away is always a good outcome.

My policy is to first avoid, then flee ...

 

[venomballistics]

<shaking head> I still don't understand WHY you would WANT to give stores like that your business. I mean, isn't it enabling bad behaviour?
Anyways, I'm done, I'll just slink away now......

sometimes its an inconvenient position, such as trips far from familiar territory. you will eventually find yourself low on coffee somewhere you've never been before. lacking local knowledge you have no real way of finding gun friendly shops. Sure, you have the option of turning around and heading to the next closest place your GPS or smartphone lists, which also may have a sign and repeat the procedure till you finally find one after wasting a few hours of your life.
Now in your own stomping grounds, its largely a different story where you had better know where the sanctuaries of reason are.

 

[StatesRightist]

So what I'm reading from quite a few is that it's not cheating unless you get caught?

And as far as there being a difference between my private property and someone else who uses their private property to conduct business - no there is not. People are "invited" as long as they comply with the law and the rules of the establishment. If the law says that if I put a "no guns" sign up you are not allowed to carry in my establishment then you are not invited if you have a gun. Pretty simple concept.

Obviously it's not a simple concept, since the opinions are widespread. From many people's point of view your sign, unless it's followed up by armed security guards you've hired to protect occupants in a store, amounts to a negligent and willful failure to protect their families and them from the ever increasing possibility of a nut shooting the place up. Their right to protect themselves and themselves trumps your political views.

Business owners rights are not the same as homeowners rights, I've said that once already. Yet, many seem to try to compare them, which is fallacy.

You seem to be trying to make this a simple black and white argument at it's not.

 

[GLV]

Simple for this old guy---I don't go in,

 

[jlrhiner]

I think I've made my feelings know on this before, so just an afterthought.

It scares the beejeebers out of me at the thought of a loaded, unsecured handgun left in a car. If it comes out of the house with me, it stays with me until it goes back in the safe.

 

[MP22]

I always honor the sign. I have a choice to leave my gun in the truck or go elsewhere. Just don't give them your money.

 

[blujax01]

Obviously it's not a simple concept, since the opinions are widespread. From many people's point of view your sign, unless it's followed up by armed security guards you've hired to protect occupants in a store, amounts to a negligent and willful failure to protect their families and them from the ever increasing possibility of a nut shooting the place up. Their right to protect themselves and themselves trumps your political views.

Business owners rights are not the same as homeowners rights, I've said that once already. Yet, many seem to try to compare them, which is fallacy.

You seem to be trying to make this a simple black and white argument at it's not.

You and I do disagree. I say the business owner's rights as they pertain to their private property are the same as the homeowner's.

And by posting their "no guns" sign, they are putting you on notice that you are not to carry a gun on their property.

And offering you the opportunity to stay out of their place of business if you do not like it.

It is very simple.

 

[bullboo1]

Everyone has great Opinions and all valid here in Texas the sign displayed must PC 30.06 compliant sign By simply making a sign the owner is in violation as "they" must post the proper" In Texas, a business must post a PC 30.06 compliant sign to keep out CHL holders who are armed. The law is VERY specific about wording, font type and font size, color contrast, and sign location. Unless a sign complies 100% with the 30.06 requirements, anyone who is armed and carrying under the authority of their CHL can ignore the sign and walk right past it. Of course since in Texas CCW gun carriers must not let that weapon concealed in a maner to be seen by others.
of course to simply have CCW Permit here in Texas you must meet at leas the following:
HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS - LIFETIME
O CLASS A OR B MISDEMEANORS WITHIN THE LAST FIE YEARS
PASSED BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL FINGERPRINT AND BACKGROUND CHECKS
NO DELINQUENT CONDUCT WITHIN THE PAST 10 YEARS
NOT DELINQUENT IN CHILD SUPPORT, STUDENT LOANS, OR STATE/LOCAL TAXES
Lastly we must be courtious to and always infrom any law enforcement offcier we have the permit if we have a weapon on us or in our car Etc. You may save your life be keeping your cool no matter what a LE officer is doing to you.

 

[hatt]

So what if they put up a "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED"(or some other religion) sign? I'd consider self defense to be as basic of a Right as a religion. You guys now think that the offending party should stay away?

 

[blujax01]

So what if they put up a "NO CHRISTIANS ALLOWED"(or some other religion) sign? I'd consider self defense to be as basic of a Right as a religion. You guys now think that the offending party should stay away?

No as there are no provisions in the law for such a sign. There are specific provisions for posting a sign where a CC holder may not carry a gun.

That is if the CC holder wants to be a law-abiding citizen, of course.

Some seem to be confusing the right to bear arms with the privilege of having a concealed carry permit.

 

[hatt]

No as there are no provisions in the law for such a sign. There are specific provisions for posting a sign where a CC holder may not carry a gun.

That is if the CC holder wants to be a law-abiding citizen, of course.

Some seem to be confusing the right to bear arms with the privilege of having a concealed carry permit.

There are no provisions in FL law that says I can't go into a business with some sort of sign. So I'm good right, you're just talking about other States?

 

[Chuck1217]

2ndshift presents a- interesting situation. The store is the only one in the area with what you may really need- it's posted 'No Firearms.' My first thought- oh man, now what do I do?' 2nd thought, Ok, I'll disarm, it's his property.
But that brings to mind something I've mentioned before- if someone robs the store while I'm in there, my wife is hurt or something- then I should be able to sue the property owner's pants off for denying me 1) my 2ndA right but more importantly 2) denying my ability to protect my wife.
I really wish someone would bring a suit for that situation- the CO theatre is a perfect 'playground' for a class-action suit.