Narrowed my first AR15 down to 4: help
- Thread starter lamorinda
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OK Hog Shooter
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I'd pick up a factory build for all of the reasons already expressed above. Once you have your first one, then you can add the second one as a build it as you want it, from the ground up. Then you can start on your third... 
Hog
Hog
rojodiablo
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For a first rifle, my vote is to get the sport. Mine is now just over 10,000 rounds, and no issues. I'ts accurate. Dust does not screw it up (Went thru the biggest sandstorm in like 20 yrs in Az. last year while 'yote hunting. No problems, though it looked pretty horrible!
You get a solid LT warranty. You will find out things you might want different, at which time you either build an upper to suit, or buy/ build a whole other rifle. You will find that no amount of money makes for a rifle that is quicker, or more accurate than any other in the AR platform when used as the doctor ordered.
If you are looking to hit dinner plates at 400yds, then you have a lot to consider besides just a couple of carbines. You will need to look to other rifles designed to stretch their legs a lot.
If you do not like the sport after say 6 months and 2k rounds? I'll buy it off you for what you paid for it.
You get a solid LT warranty. You will find out things you might want different, at which time you either build an upper to suit, or buy/ build a whole other rifle. You will find that no amount of money makes for a rifle that is quicker, or more accurate than any other in the AR platform when used as the doctor ordered.
If you are looking to hit dinner plates at 400yds, then you have a lot to consider besides just a couple of carbines. You will need to look to other rifles designed to stretch their legs a lot.
If you do not like the sport after say 6 months and 2k rounds? I'll buy it off you for what you paid for it.
Stebo
Member
"SPMP15 MOE. Just looks cool in the Earth Color and furniture."
Get it!!! $850 plus a $200 3-9X scope. You're set for $1,050 and have a rifle that “looks cool”. If you don't need the earth color, then it's even better – save $100. You will own a rifle that you have some emotion in even before, or without, modding up.
Get it!!! $850 plus a $200 3-9X scope. You're set for $1,050 and have a rifle that “looks cool”. If you don't need the earth color, then it's even better – save $100. You will own a rifle that you have some emotion in even before, or without, modding up.
RKBAGUY
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It's good that you stated your intended role for the gun in your post.
Because your purpose is for plinking out to 100 yards, but also self defense (possibly in the confines of the home), prevailing wisdom (and my personal experience) is that an M4 barrel configuration is the better way to go. It offers a slightly lighter rifle, but the shorter barrel makes it easier to handle around corners in the home. Accuracy difference out to 100 yards between the 14.5/7 barrel and a 16" barrel is nil, and there's no appreciable difference in terminal ballistics either.
I agree with the post that suggests a .556 chamber over a .223, but more for the reason of flexibility in ammo choice, more so than velocity. Another consideration is barrel twist - I recommend a 1:7 or 1:9 so you can stabilize heavier bullets and likewise choose from a wider variety of ammunition.
If this is your first AR, I would suggest you buy a pre-built upper, and only tackle the (easier) lower, as it doesn't require special tools other than what you probably already have at home. The upper build requires special tools (clamp/vise, wrench, etc.) which would mean that whatever you save by building your own is going to be spent on tools, unless you happen to know someone in the neighborhood who already has them. There's a lower receiver builder's guide at AR15.com which you'll probably find very useful. It's what I used when putting mine together.
My standard paradigm when making this sort of decision is "buy it once, buy it right", or stated another way, "buy the best you can afford". You have a real good choice there with the PSA or Colt, and though it might be a little more "expensive" now, the temporary pleasure of a lower price is far outweighed by the long term pain of lower quality. By the way, I put the word expensive in quotes because it's a relative term - just because someone sells something for half of what the market value is doesn't mean that the other choices are overpriced.
Even if you have to spend a bit more now, remember that one of the really great things about the AR platform is that if you ever decide that you wish to change the configuration, you can simply buy a different upper, and do so WITHOUT A NICS CHECK, since only the lower receiver is tracked by ATF, unless your state's laws vary, of course. Just bolt it on and go.
You might also look at these makers, who are popular with the AR15.com crowd:
Rock River
CMMG
DPMS
Armalite
Hope this helps!
Because your purpose is for plinking out to 100 yards, but also self defense (possibly in the confines of the home), prevailing wisdom (and my personal experience) is that an M4 barrel configuration is the better way to go. It offers a slightly lighter rifle, but the shorter barrel makes it easier to handle around corners in the home. Accuracy difference out to 100 yards between the 14.5/7 barrel and a 16" barrel is nil, and there's no appreciable difference in terminal ballistics either.
I agree with the post that suggests a .556 chamber over a .223, but more for the reason of flexibility in ammo choice, more so than velocity. Another consideration is barrel twist - I recommend a 1:7 or 1:9 so you can stabilize heavier bullets and likewise choose from a wider variety of ammunition.
If this is your first AR, I would suggest you buy a pre-built upper, and only tackle the (easier) lower, as it doesn't require special tools other than what you probably already have at home. The upper build requires special tools (clamp/vise, wrench, etc.) which would mean that whatever you save by building your own is going to be spent on tools, unless you happen to know someone in the neighborhood who already has them. There's a lower receiver builder's guide at AR15.com which you'll probably find very useful. It's what I used when putting mine together.
My standard paradigm when making this sort of decision is "buy it once, buy it right", or stated another way, "buy the best you can afford". You have a real good choice there with the PSA or Colt, and though it might be a little more "expensive" now, the temporary pleasure of a lower price is far outweighed by the long term pain of lower quality. By the way, I put the word expensive in quotes because it's a relative term - just because someone sells something for half of what the market value is doesn't mean that the other choices are overpriced.
Even if you have to spend a bit more now, remember that one of the really great things about the AR platform is that if you ever decide that you wish to change the configuration, you can simply buy a different upper, and do so WITHOUT A NICS CHECK, since only the lower receiver is tracked by ATF, unless your state's laws vary, of course. Just bolt it on and go.
You might also look at these makers, who are popular with the AR15.com crowd:
Rock River
CMMG
DPMS
Armalite
Hope this helps!
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Maddmax
US Veteran
Ground up. It had a 20" barrel to start.
JaPes
Member
Maybe next summer, we should have a build-off. Set a budget limit. Maybe set some sort of build constraints, total build weight not to exceed, etc.
That would be interesting to see what gets built because it would be an insight into each of our individual approaches & build focus.
That would be interesting to see what gets built because it would be an insight into each of our individual approaches & build focus.
I've recently been helping a sibling spec an AR that will be built by Wilson Combat (pricey, but superb ...) I dropped by the shop at Accuracy Speaks to have some pistol sights installed, and bumped into Derek Martin, AR guru, and asked his recommendation for a general-purpose rate of rifling twist. His reply: "One in nine will stabilize anything that will fit in the magazine." So, that's the spec I recommended, especially as I anticipate that 55gr projectiles will be the preferred choice...
6920---------- best bang for the buck.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&gid=5
Buy the Colt - there is no AR that holds value better than a Colt.
CBR240
Member
I have a S&W MP15OR that I have customized a bit. When I decided I wanted a .22 LR AR (in addition to our S&W 15-22) I started with a CMMG lower and built from there (mainly CMMG stuff). I got the M&P15OR because it was a fantastic deal that I could not pass up and have been very happy with it. It is great fun to "build your own", and I really enjoyed that. The lower is really simple; uppers do require a bit more specialty tools.
Since you mention your neighbor has built several ARs and is willing to help, I bet he has all needed tools. If you want to go that route, I think you will have fun.
Colt for whatever reasons, is seen a the "gold standard", and will have better resale than most others if you decide ARs are not for you. I think most agree that they are well made weapons.
Twist rate, 1:9, 1:8, 1:7? We could argue all day, no week, actually there have been threads that go on for years. I can NOT speak expertly on that subject, but can say that the 1:9 twist in my M&P15OR with 55 gr loads will shoot about 1 MOA at 100 yards when I do my part (with isn't that often
).
My 15OR and it's twin CMMG .22LR:
Since you mention your neighbor has built several ARs and is willing to help, I bet he has all needed tools. If you want to go that route, I think you will have fun.
Colt for whatever reasons, is seen a the "gold standard", and will have better resale than most others if you decide ARs are not for you. I think most agree that they are well made weapons.
Twist rate, 1:9, 1:8, 1:7? We could argue all day, no week, actually there have been threads that go on for years. I can NOT speak expertly on that subject, but can say that the 1:9 twist in my M&P15OR with 55 gr loads will shoot about 1 MOA at 100 yards when I do my part (with isn't that often
).My 15OR and it's twin CMMG .22LR:
CBT240,
Nice pic's and great post - thank you.
I appreciate everyone's feedback.
fyi: Dicks Sportings Good throughout California is out of stock on Troys Defense Carbon!
I am working with Quantico Tactical to get me a MP Sport ($566), but the online store does not have the Sport but has a more expensive T or PS for $1,000.
I was attracted by the low price and entry level price of the Sport. Even open for the MP15 MOE if I can find a Super Good Deal.
In any event, I am enjoying the shift in paradigm from my normal day to day bla bla. Shopping for an assault rifle is kind of exciting.
Thanks for all the replies. Keep em coming.
Nice pic's and great post - thank you.
I appreciate everyone's feedback.
fyi: Dicks Sportings Good throughout California is out of stock on Troys Defense Carbon!
I am working with Quantico Tactical to get me a MP Sport ($566), but the online store does not have the Sport but has a more expensive T or PS for $1,000.
I was attracted by the low price and entry level price of the Sport. Even open for the MP15 MOE if I can find a Super Good Deal.
In any event, I am enjoying the shift in paradigm from my normal day to day bla bla. Shopping for an assault rifle is kind of exciting.
Thanks for all the replies. Keep em coming.
Stebo
Member
OK, so I just looked at The Chart. Has anyone bothered to compare Colt to other manufacturers listed on The Chart? I'm not seeing much, if any, differences. HPT, MPI, almost all say 100% or ALL.
Can someone point out a superior feature of the Colt on The Chart?
Oh god not the chart...if you want a 6920 I can hook you up with a trade in for $600, in really nice shape. I know quite a few people that have bought em', H-Bar and all. If you want something accurate get something else. I am happy with my sport. Shoots better than I do on most days and on the others it is still less than 1 moa. The colts do very well at 2 moa rifles. Most of us Sport Owners arent going to waste our time trying to convince someone who considers the colt the end all. Just remember they do not hold their resale value or we wouldnt have the ability to buy them for $600, in fact the same guy sells trade in Bushmasters for $675. After shooting the colt I bought something with more accuracy namely my Sport!
cyphertext
US Veteran
I have never understood the "resale value" argument....I never sell a gun!
Sure, a used Colt should sell at a higher price than a used M&P 15 Sport, but maybe, just maybe, because they cost more in the first place! I'm willing to bet that the percentage off from new sale price would be real close, no matter which brand you go with.
The M&P 15T is one I would be interested in, but not at the $1000 price point, depending on model. If it is the old model T, with the Troy rail and Troy flip up sites, then that sounds about right on price. If it is the new model T, with Magpul sites, then I think it is too high. The new model T is basically a Sport, with a dust cover, forward assist, and quad rail. The barrel, BCG, and lower are all the same as the Sport.
Sure, a used Colt should sell at a higher price than a used M&P 15 Sport, but maybe, just maybe, because they cost more in the first place! I'm willing to bet that the percentage off from new sale price would be real close, no matter which brand you go with.
The M&P 15T is one I would be interested in, but not at the $1000 price point, depending on model. If it is the old model T, with the Troy rail and Troy flip up sites, then that sounds about right on price. If it is the new model T, with Magpul sites, then I think it is too high. The new model T is basically a Sport, with a dust cover, forward assist, and quad rail. The barrel, BCG, and lower are all the same as the Sport.
The Chart lists wanna be Mil-Spec rifles. S&W's unless you get into the LEO or Military lines are Modern Sporting Rifles, so the "Chart" is just something some people use to justify their expense of too much money. These are the same people and manufacturers that are tied to a set of 50 year old Metallurgical and Engineering standards that harken back to a time of "3 on the tree" transmissions and big old dial telephones. Eventually you have to wake up and realize just because they have always made them this way doesn't make them the best that they can be. They really are being produced to "antique" standards.
RKBAGUY
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However, there is some wisdom to adhering to those 50-year-old Mil-spec standards for the ability to replace a damaged part anytime, anywhere, from any vendor.
Regarding the Colt, if they're still using their (proprietary) different diameter pins, that's something to consider in favor of another maker, for the same reasons why Mil-spec parts are generally favored among AR enthusiasts.
By the way, there's a danger in relying too much on that chart. AR makers move with the market and change features and materials to keep up with competition. For example, my CMMG M4 has a 4150 barrel and the bolt is MPI tested, so the information contained there is not universally accurate (depending on the model number) because vendors make more than one sort of configuration. For example, CMMG has made two or three different M4 uppers over time. Therefore the chart should not be relied upon exclusively without confirming whether or not it applies to the particular model of the one you might be looking for.
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Thanks again for the good posts: very good reading.
I spoke with QT and though the online store will not ship me Sport (no cal legal and can not put the $8 bullet button on), the San Diego Store is willing to ship one to me. they also have the SPMPP15 MOE for $950 plus tax - $100 mail inrebate.
Thus
$673 for the Sport to my door or
$1003 for the MPP Moe (dark earth) to my door.
I'm thinking Sport for my first AR15.
I am very sure this is my current narrowed choice and will pull the trigger in the morning.
Is there reason why I should spend that much more for the MOE?
Thanks all
I spoke with QT and though the online store will not ship me Sport (no cal legal and can not put the $8 bullet button on), the San Diego Store is willing to ship one to me. they also have the SPMPP15 MOE for $950 plus tax - $100 mail inrebate.
Thus
$673 for the Sport to my door or
$1003 for the MPP Moe (dark earth) to my door.
I'm thinking Sport for my first AR15.
I am very sure this is my current narrowed choice and will pull the trigger in the morning.
Is there reason why I should spend that much more for the MOE?
Thanks all
Maddmax
US Veteran
It's only a matter of time and the clock is picking up speed.
