How Much Crimp on Rifle Rounds?

[tappedandtagged]

I've reloaded and crimped a ton of .357 and .44 mag cases with cast bullets, and with a bit of trial and error and help from this forum, I found what a good crimp looks like.

But... now I'm doing rifle rounds (.223) with a cannelured jacketed bullet. I have 720 pieces of brass waiting on my order from Graf's to get here so I can make the ammo. I've loaded rifle ammo before (both .223 and 243) but I haven't ever crimped any of them.

Since I'm loading for my AR, I know I want to crimp. But how much? Can anyone explain or possibly post a pic of what a good crimp looks like on a rifle round? I will be seating and crimping in the same stroke. Thanks!

 

[Maximumbob54]

This is one of mine from my last batch. I use the Lee FCD not so much to set a crimp but to remove some of that square edge for less of a chance of it to catch anything. Neck tension on the case will hold the bullet 99% of the time without any serious need for a crimp. If you ever make any ammo for a gun with a mag tube then of course this all changes and you want a good solid crimp like for your .30-30 in your Winny 1894.

 

[lmcgust]

For crimping of .223, I see it like this.... After seating the bullet, and before the crimp die, I use my caliper and measure at the neck and usually get a value around 0.246. Now, considering the bullet has a diameter of 0.224 and the brass thickness at the neck is around 0.010 or 0.011, then then total thickness = .224 + 2*.011 = .246. I tried forcing the bullet inwards by pushing it against a piece of wood and nothing moves. I use the reloads in my Armalite AR-15, no problems so far. Therefore, I don't feel I need any crimping. I still have a dillon crimp die in the 4th station, but it is hardly doing anything.
Guy-

 

[Butzbach]

None?

It's my understanding that the neck holds the round in rifle ammunition.

 

[WR Moore]

Try measuring the crimp on a GI round and duplicate it. Maybe someone here will do the honors and advise how much ATK is crimping the issue ammo.

Butzbach, the military crimps both bullet and primer to make sure they stay where they're supposed to during the feed cycle of military weapons.

In fact, it used to be (and still is for some companies) common to cannelure cases in semi-auto pistol rounds to prevent bullet setback during feeding.

 

[tappedandtagged]

I understand neck tension is supposed to hold the bullet. But I'm loading these to stock pile and will be storing them in an old metal ammo can. I want to be certain that when I need them they will be there ready to use. I am toying with the idea of using a sealant as well. These aren't the run of the mill plinking rounds. I'm looking for ultra reliability. I guess I'll just experiment and see. I don't think it will take much. Just enough to press into the cannelure (thays what its there for, so I can crimp them without increasing the overall neck diameter).

 

[SMSgt]

I've never crimped a rifle round. The expander ball should be undersized so that case neck tension holds the bullets.

If you're concerned about moisture damage, crimping isn't going to make a difference. Seal the case neck and primers if you see the need, otherwise, store them in a moisture-proof container--forever.

 

[2152hq]

Crimp the rounds just enough to turn the edge/mouth of the case into the cannelure of the bullet.
Nice square case mouths and repeatable OAL case specs are important here for accuracy.

You can over do it (crimp),,but that just damages the bullet and won't do much for the accuracy either in most cases.
A little goes a long way in crimping jacketet bullets.
Neck tension is still the important.

I crimp loads for all lever action and semi auto rifles. I crimp the loads for the heavy kickers like 470NE, 9.3x74R, ect.
But most everything else in rifle calibers I let the neck tension alone take care of the job.

Sealant for moisture if want to keep it completely out,,both bullet and primer. A crimp won't do it.
Or water proof storage as already advised.

 

[MichiganScott]

The only rifle rounds I crimp are those that are shot from guns with tubular mags. I load for AR's in 5.56 NATO and 6.8SPC, M1A, and M1 Garand. I don't even find crimping necessary for magnum bolt guns up to and including .375 H&H.

If I don't have enough neck tension to hold the bullet in place, I chuck the expander ball in a drill press and polish it smaller a couple of thousands using emery paper. The polished ball pulls out of the neck easier besides.

 

[Frank237]

Buying from GRAF's isn't much of a bargain. Not like it used to be anyway. If your wanting to stash a can away...Why not simply buy some factory loaded ...probably not much more expensive.

Saw PMC a few days ago for $320 per 1K.

 

[tappedandtagged]

Buying from GRAF's isn't much of a bargain. Not like it used to be anyway. If your wanting to stash a can away...Why not simply buy some factory loaded ...probably not much more expensive.

Saw PMC a few days ago for $320 per 1K.

I got enough for 2K for $396 including shipping. Right now the going price for .223 is 0.40 a shot. I can make it for just under half that. Graf's was the cheapest place that had everything in stock.

 

[SweetMK]

The only reason for a crimp, is to hold the bullet in place.

Single shot, target rifle, never crimp, the brass lasts longer.

50BMG magazine fed, the bullets will move from recoil if something ain't holding them!!

Your rifle, somewhere in between, experiment to see if the bullet moves, they don't in my 243 Varmint Special.

My S&W 629 came with a warning, factory crimp may not hold the bullets in place!!

The gun is too light!!

 

[Gamecock]

I'm looking for ultra reliability.

Reliable is reliable. Ultra reliable is like more pregnant.

I've been handloading for 50 years, and never had a problem with reliability. Me thinks you are over thinking this.

 

[WR Moore]

I had time yesterday to mike several factory .223 rounds. The crimp was 0.005-0.007 inches. That's five to seven thousandths of an inch.

FWIW, I once pulled some .222 Reminton factory for the bullets and discovered the factory crimp was so tight, the bullets were visibly wasp-waisted. Despite that, they'd shoot into one ragged hole @ 100 yards.

 

[tappedandtagged]

Reliable is reliable. Ultra reliable is like more pregnant.

I've been handloading for 50 years, and never had a problem with reliability. Me thinks you are over thinking this.

I don't think I'm over thinking at all. I plan on crimping my AR rounds and asked how much crimp. The overall response was that I am being ridiculous for even wanting to crimp them.

The bullets have a cannelure and I want to crimp them. Right wrong or indifferent, I am going to crimp them. All I want to know is how to tell they have enough crimp. I have never crimped a rifle round before. I understnd the premise behind crimping ( I own and load for a S&W 629 mountain gun). But a rifle round is a whole new critter. I'm not overthinking, I'm just trying to weed out those that insist no crimp is best for every rile except tube fed.

The military crimps theirs, so there must be a benefit, otherwise the government would cut it out to save costs.

Ok, enough of my rant.

 

[Gamecock]

I don't think I'm over thinking at all. I plan on crimping my AR rounds and asked how much crimp. The overall response was that I am being ridiculous for even wanting to crimp them.

The bullets have a cannelure and I want to crimp them. Right wrong or indifferent, I am going to crimp them. All I want to know is how to tell they have enough crimp. I have never crimped a rifle round before. I understnd the premise behind crimping ( I own and load for a S&W 629 mountain gun). But a rifle round is a whole new critter. I'm not overthinking, I'm just trying to weed out those that insist no crimp is best for every rile except tube fed.

The military crimps theirs, so there must be a benefit, otherwise the government would cut it out to save costs.

Ok, enough of my rant.

"The government does it, so it must be a good idea." LMAO !!!

BTW . . . you are likely to find that the cannelure is not where you want it. I.e., the COAL will be wrong if you crimp into the cannelure.

 

[SMSgt]

Crimp away. You'll figure out easily enough when there's too much crimp. Enought to hold the bullet, not too much to deform the neck.

 

[Rich/WIS]

Uniform crimping requires uniform case OAL. Unless you trim your cases some will have a tighter crimp than others. A hard crimp on an overlong case can buckle the shoulder slightly, you won't see it but the round may not chamber, and worse may not extract when you try to clear it. I and most other who shoot M1's do not crimp and have no problems, and you have a lot more recoil than an AR and no less violence when the action cycles. That said a light crimp won't hurt anything unless absolute accuracy is an issue.

 

[caromrk]

Saw this and wanted it, but don't have enough time to really use it properly. If you had the time and were looking for top notch accuracy, you could find the perfect crimp for all your firearms.
Consistent Crimp Starter Kit::Lee Style - Precision Accuracy Co.

I'm too lazy and eyeball mine when I crimp. The only rifle rounds I always crimp are 30-30, 30 Remington, and 357mag (in a Win 94).

I have played with my 5.56/223 ammo and if I do crimp, it is to smooth the case neck up as mentioned in some of the other post. Haven't had any problems yet with my reloads. Had some crappy Greek mil surp stuff that wouldn't cycle in 3 different rifles. Had a lot of jamming and some of the bullets were pushed into the case even with the factory crimp. Hated to do it, but trashed the ammo.

 

[Jerry M]

The military crimps for machine guns. They have never crimper match ammunition, even the ammunition shot through M1, M-14, and M-16. .

How much should you crimp? none, it's not necessary in an AR-15.

Good luck

Jerry