M&P 9mm accuracy issues?

Three months ago I would have said that my MP had accuracy issues. I was raised with revolvers and single action semi-auto's and had a fair amount of experience with both. I considered my skill level to be better than average. I just could not get my MP to group better than about 5" at 25ft and all shots were hitting low. Over time and after making a point of working on my trigger control (my first striker fired gun) and paying close attention to what was going on I started noticing significant improvement in my POI as well as my group sizes. Random flyers have also been reduced to the point of only being an occasional occurance that is probably caused by me. I am not saying that others may not be having gun related problems. But that at least in my case it was more a matter of getting accustomed to shooting a pistol that is unlike any of the others I had owned. I would stll not consider the MP's to be target guns but they were never intended to be. It fares well though against others in a little informal bi-weekly match that a few of us have started up. And shooting rapid fire (something we just started) it does exceptionally well. Especially compared to some of the guys whose pistols were top performers in the slow fire shoots. Eats up a lot of ammo though.
 
Mr Richard, you raise important points. However, if you read several of the threads on this subject, you'll note I emphasize the role of the user and becoming used to the trigger of the M&P. However, there are several folks who reportedly have examples of the M&P9 that group very well and others which are challenged to hit the proverbial barn wall from inside.

Secondly, while Ransom rests are very interesting and valuable devices, they [per skilled folks who have extensive experience with the devices] have "issues" with poly framed pistols. As a result, testing with a Ransom really indicates very little in this particular case.

Finally, Bar-Sto amoung others, have made successful businesses from the practice of producing barrels somewhat oversize in the breech area to reduce the variability of slide/barrel breech alignment. What possible effect the changes in barrel breech profile of factory barrels may actually have would require comparitive measurement and testing of a statisically significant number of barrels/pistols. While this would be interesting and potentially helpful, it isn't likely to happen unless we can get at least 20 each of accurate/inaccurate pistols in the same place at the same time with the same ammo and appropriate measuring tools.

I also completely agree about the internet and the waves of misinformation.
 
This all started from one Post by a very dissatisfied owner and resulted in other Posts including this one, " I ordered a M&P9 and now I read about all the accuracy issues. Wonderful!"
As to barrel makers and other add ons, these companies get rich by taking advantage of the fact thier touted improvements cannot objectively be verified but most when adding these improvments subjectively and psychologically perceive an improvement. Not a single semi auto of mine has anything other than its original factory barrel and I have never found the need for an aftermaket barrel for either accuracy issues or feed issues.
So faced with a lack of objective information, what does one do?
If you have an Engineering/Scientific background, you suspect that the information you are supplied with is not based on objective testing and is possibly perception. What you don't do is to immediately determine the problem is real and search for a way to fix the problem. But if your like many and don't have the requisite background to do research and stand your ground with an informed position because you have the credentials to call it a non-problem, you go along with the idea and promulgate the idea.
I don't believe there is a widespread problem or maybe even any problem until I review some objective evidence.-Dick
 
I think the accuracy issue could be far worse than reported.

I've read several posts in this thread, and many in other threads and forums dismissing the very idea there is a problem because their gun will shoot a 2"-3" group at 7-10 yards.

THAT IS NOT GOOD and if you think you are doing well with that kind of a group you need and instructor. Seriously. Get a good .22 (S&W Mod 41 comes to mind) and an instructor and get back to basics. At 7 yards you should have a sub 1" group off hand.

If we don't go to the range to get better, and shoot to our ability, there are a lot less expensive ways to make loud noises and kick up dust.

If your firearm can't help you improve it's wasting your time.

My M&P9 shoots a 11" group at 22 yards after returning from the factory. They replaced the barrel. My USP .45 shoots a 2" group at 25 yards. Now the HK costs slightly more. But how much ammo do you have to put thru the M&P at $0.30 or more a shot to determine you are wasting your time.

I have no axe to grind, I don't make money from shooting. But I am truly pissed that the money I invested in this piece of junk is wasted and I don't have a 9mm to take to the range. Now how long do I wait to spend more money on it to get it to shoot? It also really pisses me off that a US company would turn out a piece of junk and then ignore it. That's not how my country does things.
 
I've recently purchased a MP 9FS that also has these accuracy issues.

first, some background, I'm a long time handgunner in NRA Bullseye, International Handgun Metallic Silhouette, and PPC.

So, I have some experience with accuracy testing various handgun platforms.

These are pictures of recent targets at 25 yards. Shot from a supported position.

1st. 115 gr Blaser Brass FMJ
2nd. 124 gr Fiocchi TMJ
3rd. 147 gr. American Eagle with factory recoil spring.
4th. 147 gr. American Eagle with Wolff 24# spring.

a cursory observation would be the heavier bullets work better.
But, I've got S&W revolvers with 1:18 twist barrels that shoot under 1" from this distance.

I'm still deciding how to fix this..


I have an 1880's Belgium .442 Bulldog that shoots that well!!
 

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Wonder if the crown could contribute?
 

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I've recently purchased a MP 9FS that also has these accuracy issues.

first, some background, I'm a long time handgunner in NRA Bullseye, International Handgun Metallic Silhouette, and PPC.

So, I have some experience with accuracy testing various handgun platforms.

These are pictures of recent targets at 25 yards. Shot from a supported position.

1st. 115 gr Blaser Brass FMJ
2nd. 124 gr Fiocchi TMJ
3rd. 147 gr. American Eagle with factory recoil spring.
4th. 147 gr. American Eagle with Wolff 24# spring.

a cursory observation would be the heavier bullets work better.
But, I've got S&W revolvers with 1:18 twist barrels that shoot under 1" from this distance.

I'm still deciding how to fix this..


I have an 1880's Belgium .442 Bulldog that shoots that well!!


The barrel fit is too loose so you cannot improve accuracy without going to a fitted barrel.


C4
 
Would anyone actually recommend buying a FS M&P 9mm was actually gonna go pick one up today buy now not so sure! Should i just stick with glock gen 3s! I want a range gun to puy alot of rounds down range! Doesnt sound like smith is the company for the job?
 
Sorry to have to say this but you might want to look at an XDm.
 
Wonder if the crown could contribute?

Hard to say about crowns since absent of obvious damage, one can never really be too sure.

I just fired 3 targets with my M&P9L this Wednesday evening. 25 yards, rested, 115 gr Federal AE. Five rounds each.
3-3/4", 3-1/2", 6-1/2".
No shots were "called" on the last target.

I have had similar experiences with this gun as long as I have owned it. I'm not entirely confident of the quality of the ammunition, so I will try again next week with something else, or a couple of somethings else. If I recall correctly, this gun always shot best with Hornady 124 gr FMJ-FN bullets, but even with those, it is erratic.

I agree a new barrel would seem to be indicated, but I think I will try to re-crown the factory barrel since there is nothing to lose. The gun should shoot into 2-1/2" to 3" with good ammunition, to be of any value to me.
 
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For those who say accurate enough, I want the confidence in knowing when the bad guy comes around the barn with a shotgun at 25 yards I won't have to wait till he's 15 yds away to be sure of defensive hits. !!
 
First, I have to agree with Mr. Richard that internet nail-biting can certainly "snowball." On the other hand, when you have shooters with a lifetime of experience telling you that there is a decided accuracy problem with their randomly purchased M&P9, their stories at least deserve to be considered with respect to their considerable experience.

I did not get to re-crown the barrel of my 9L before I tested it again last evening, but I have done so now and will know more the next time I shoot it. I doubt that there was anything wrong with the barrel crown as it came from S&W. It was a tad rough, but the crown was well centered, probably cut before the barrel was rifled, and it lapped in to a smooth finish very quickly.

Last evening I had limited time and did not get to shoot much, but here are some additional shooting results from my 9L (serial number (MRJ0xxx). Barrel was clean when I started. 5 shots were fired to condition the bore. All measurements are for 5 rounds at 25 yards, from a benchrest:
Federal 9BP / 3.38"
Magtech 124gr FMJ / 4.81"
Rem 124gr JHP handload / 3.44"
Montana Gold 121gr IFP handload / 6"

Both of the handloads are exceptionally accurate in other guns I own. I do not have any concerns about the quality of those cartridges and consider them at least the equal of similar U.S. commercial ammunition I have used. Unfortunately, I did not have time to fire three 5-round groups with each load.

Thinking that the Rem 124gr JHP handload might do better if tested again (that loads has always been exceptionally accurate in many of my guns), I decided to take my time and shoot one 10-round group before the range closed - 7.38"! :rolleyes:

This "group" contained four flyers, possibly three and one might have been a slight shooter error. In any case, if those four were subtracted from the results, the resulting 6-round group would have measured 1.81".

Every group mentioned above had what appeared to be 1 or more flyer(s). For instance, the initial group fired with the Remington-bullet handload would have measured 1" were it not for the single flyer that took that group to 3.44". The flyers are not a matter of first- or last-shots.

With due respect to Mr. Richard's legitimate concerns, after over 40-years now of shooting more centerfire handguns than I can recall, I have confidence in my ability to know when I have fired a good target and when I haven't. For some reason, this gun shows signs of potentially being a good shooter, but is erratic and consistently produces flyers. I do not claim to know whether the problem is systemic across a wide number of production guns. I do claim that I expect a gun of this quality and price-level, and certainly one made by a highly respected and long established company like S&W, to shoot with a certain level of precision. Based on my experience with other, similar, production guns from several manufacturers, this gun should average 3-inches or less at 25-yards, 2-1/2" better. This particular gun will not do that with any ammunition I have tried so far.

In looking at the various dimensions of the barrel and slide, there is nothing obvious that indicates one part or the other is substandard. The interior of my barrel does appear to be slightly larger at the chamber end than at the muzzle, somewhere in the area of 0.0005", which I would think would work in favor of accurate shooting as opposed to against it. I do not have gauges to check the length (headspace) and diameter of the chamber itself. All ammunition used would easily drop into my Wilson maximum ammunition gauge.

I did have the chance to speak to the folks at Bar-sto today and while no specific information was forthcoming, they are working on a barrel for the M&P. I have confidence that their product will likely cure the worst of my gun's problems. It will be probably April, 2013, or later, before I will know more about that.
 
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M29, thank you for your observations. They mirror mine with the 9fl.
FYI my muzzle dia is. 006 smaller than the slide opening.
 
My M&P9 shoots a 11" group at 22 yards after returning from the factory. They replaced the barrel. My USP .45 shoots a 2" group at 25 yards. Now the HK costs slightly more. But how much ammo do you have to put thru the M&P at $0.30 or more a shot to determine you are wasting your time.
Youre comparing a 9mm striker fire pistol to a .45 ACP hammer fired. As far as the internet is concerned, it could be user end error. You should clearly state if you have experience shooting similar groups with similar pistols. Else, the comparison is moot :)
 
BBS1, I take his mention of 2" groups with his USP to indicate his proficency. My personal experience with the MP9 would mirror his..

I get better 25 yd groupings with my Whamm-O slingshot and 3/8" steel balls...
 
I would think a decently accurate service pistol shod be capable of 3-3.5" groups at 25 yards from a rest. The 11" groups mentioned above would be a decent pattern for a shotgun. I have a 9mm FS that I have not shot a lot. I have shot some plates with it at speed and didn't have trouble hitting them at about 15 yds. I didn't shoot any groups as I knew he gun is not a target grade weapon. Reading this thread has made me concerned enough that I will do some bench testing on my next range visit. My 9mm 1911 will shoot groups around 2" with my cast bullet handloads. I don't expect this kind of accuracy from the M&P but I don't expect 6-12" either. Almost wish I hadn't read this thread :D
 
I would think a decently accurate service pistol shod be capable of 3-3.5" groups at 25 yards from a rest...
Almost wish I hadn't read this thread :D

Well, let us know what your gun does with some sort of ordinary ammunition. Really, if my gun shot consistent 3-inch groups, or even 3-1/2", I could probably live with it. Wouldn't be pleased, but might decide to live with it. As is, where one group can be in that area and the very next one is 7" or so, it is hard to have any confidence in the gun. I like the M&P overall. It may actually be worth it to me to spend the money on a new barrel - but I shouldn't have to do that. One way or another, the accuracy thing either has to be resolved or the gun will be finding a new home.
 
It would be nice to think a "service" grade pistol would shoot 2" groups. In reality, it takes a well tuned 1911 to get those kind of groups most of the time. Many service grade revolvers will give that kind of accuracy. I'll try to see what mine will do and report back. May be time for a range trip this afternoon. If not maybe next weekend.
 
I have an older M&P9 that has a newer barrel, and it seemed to shoot ok. I was able to accurately, and quickly get A hits on targets within 10 yards at a USPSA shoot. Then one stage the targets around 15-18 yards and I noticed something strange. Out of six silhouette targets I had some very odd hits. I got my only miss on a wide open target and when I went for head shots on another they were way off... I didn't have the best luck shooting the plates either.

I also noticed much closer "groups" from my g19. I am going to have to do some more testing and see what is going on. I already purchased more magazines, but if this thing doesn't shoot very good I am not investing more money into it.
 
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