I have a MP45c that is very accurate , I have been very impressed.Thats why I started the thread, I was considering a 9mm.
M&P 9mm accuracy issues?
- Thread starter rcamp
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I have a MP45c that is very accurate , I have been very impressed.Thats why I started the thread, I was considering a 9mm.
I want to thank the forum and all members who replied to the thread. Has been very helpful and informative. I hope Nakano will update us on his new barrel...
My .45 has been excellent in every way, still hoping to add a 9mm. I believe with threads such as this, we'll get a fix. The M&P line of pistols are way too promising to allow for an inaccurate 9mm!
My .45 has been excellent in every way, still hoping to add a 9mm. I believe with threads such as this, we'll get a fix. The M&P line of pistols are way too promising to allow for an inaccurate 9mm!
Yes, the M&P 9's have accuracy issues. S&W knows this and they have begun to change their barrels. I bought a Pro-Series 4.25 inch barrel last year and it sucked at distances beyond 15 yards. I read this article by Hilton Yam and decided to change my barrel to a KKM precision, which is a drop-in barrel...no smithing required.
25 yard group (10 shots) with factory barrel:
25 yard group (10 shots) with KKM barrel:
25 yard group (10 shots) with factory barrel:
25 yard group (10 shots) with KKM barrel:
Nakanokalronin
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I will defiantly update everyone on how the new barrel performs. I plan on using 3 weights and at least 4 different brands of ammo next range trip which will either be today or tomorrow the latest.
Nakanokalronin
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Shot the M&P with the stock recoil spring and below are the best results. All shooting was done at 15 yards.
WWB 115gr.
PDX-1 124gr. +P
HST 124gr. +P
To be honest it's nothing special, but it's way better than what I was getting with the old barrel. I went from a 10" group at 15 yards to what you see above. I've already sent in the gun twice and got a barrel on the second trip so I'm not going to bother with it again since I think this is as good as it's going to get. I'll just throw it in the back of the safe and wait for Apex.
I'll throw the stiffer recoil spring back in there next range trip but that won't be for awhile. All I've been doing with this gun is using up ammo for test purposes only and it's time to shoot my other 9mms until Apex comes up with something to make it somewhat decent.
WWB 115gr.
PDX-1 124gr. +P
HST 124gr. +P
To be honest it's nothing special, but it's way better than what I was getting with the old barrel. I went from a 10" group at 15 yards to what you see above. I've already sent in the gun twice and got a barrel on the second trip so I'm not going to bother with it again since I think this is as good as it's going to get. I'll just throw it in the back of the safe and wait for Apex.
I'll throw the stiffer recoil spring back in there next range trip but that won't be for awhile. All I've been doing with this gun is using up ammo for test purposes only and it's time to shoot my other 9mms until Apex comes up with something to make it somewhat decent.
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kodiakpb
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Shot the M&P with the stock recoil spring and below are the best results. All shooting was done at 15 yards.
WWB 115gr.
PDX-1 124gr. +P
HST 124gr. +P
To be honest it's nothing special, but it's way better than what I was getting with the old barrel. I went from a 10" group at 15 yards to what you see above. I've already sent in the gun twice and got a barrel on the second trip so I'm not going to bother with it again since I think this is as good as it's going to get. I'll just throw it in the back of the safe and wait for Apex.
I'll throw the stiffer recoil spring back in there next range trip but that won't be for awhile. All I've been doing with this gun is using up ammo for test purposes only and it's time to shoot my other 9mms until Apex comes up with something to make it somewhat decent.
Was that benched or standing unsupported?
Nakanokalronin
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Standing unsupported
1sailor
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What exactly would be considered GOOD accuracy. Below is a target I fired at 25 yards from a sitting position (leaning against the bumper of my car). It's a 15 shot group shooting 115gr Blazer Brass. This is a pretty typical group and I would like to be able to close it up if possible. The orange dot is 2" and the black is a little under 4". Is this about the limit of the MP's abilities or can it be more finely tuned to shoot tighter groups. I have been thinking that maybe with sights allowing a 6 o'clock hold since the front sight completely covers the black at 25 yards making most shots a best guess. The two stray shots in the white are the result of my own poor trigger control.
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Nakanokalronin
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My other guns get tighter groups, but according to the tech/smith/whatever they are that I talked to, the FS 9mm M&P's are supposed to get 3" groups at 25 yards. I'd find that acceptable if I could get 3" at 15 yards. Honestly, my Shield shoots like a laser when compared to what's on my 3 targets above.
What exactly would be considered GOOD accuracy. Below is a target I fired at 25 yards from a sitting position (leaning against the bumper of my car). It's a 15 shot group shooting 115gr Blazer Brass. This is a pretty typical group and I would like to be able to close it up if possible. The orange dot is 2" and the black is a little under 4". Is this about the limit of the MP's abilities or can it be more finely tuned to shoot tighter groups. I have been thinking that maybe with sights allowing a 6 o'clock hold since the front sight completely covers the black at 25 yards making most shots a best guess. The two stray shots in the white are the result of my own poor trigger control.
if that is your 25 yard group then I'd say that's "good" enough. When you are shooting a gun and it continually shoots what looks like a shotgun pattern you need to find the issue, whether it be you or the gun. In my case it was the gun. Replacing the factory barrel with the KKM barrel fixed the issue for me.
retarmyaviator
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I have two M&Ps in 9mm, a full size I purchased in Jan 12 and a 5" barrel Pro purchased Jun 12. I shoot three USPSA type matches each month and so far I have not had a problem with either of these two pistols in those matches.
Hilton Yam had a good good discussion about about this issue over on the 10-8 Performance blog.
(Yes, there are other forums !)
(Yes, there are other forums !)
Nakanokalronin
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According to that blog, the new production factory barrel got a 2.5" group at 25 yards which is better than the aftermarket barrels that were tested. Not sure what magic unicorn horn that M&P barrel came from ,but I wish I had it.
I think that Nakano's frustration is quite understandable. If I had a 9 that shot like that I would b enraged. Totally unaccepatable from a legend like S&W. They need to hook him up with something from the Performance Center now. A companys reputation is everything. Alas, I wont be adding a FS9mm now. I'm disappointed.
Nakanokalronin
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Thanks for the response. I really like the M&P series and if it wasn't for the accuracy, it would be spot on perfect. The Shield I have is now my current EDC and will honestly stay there as a permanent all year carry gun. The BG380 I have is the pocket option when IWB cannot be achieved, again a permanent piece.
I really don't expect handouts from any company and I honestly just think they need to look into what aftermarket companies are already looking to produce to fix this issue. They replaced my barrel but not the locking block which is exactly what Apex is looking to make.
10-8 mentions the older barrels working well with 147gr ammo which I also shot at the range but it was worse than what you see in the three target pictures which is why I didn't post it. The S&W tech told me that they work best with 124gr. +P ammo. I tried 2 different brands in 124gr. +P so obviously it means these issues are very random and it's time S&W goes through their tooling and processes to make things a tad more consistent.
I'm not ready to hang up my FS M&P 9mm yet, I just need a company like Apex to make it right unfortunately. I'll say this, if every single other aspect of the gun was not perfect, I would already be rid of it, but I want it to work.
I should of brought one of my Beretta 92s and P89 for target comparison pictures using the same ammo. I've gone through well over 600 rounds (many of which were premium HP) which is easily 575 rounds more than what I've ever needed to get used to a new platform.
Bottom line, I'm not putting down the M&P series since the .40s and 45s seem to be GTG and many of the 9mm models, but it seems mine is something S&W just can't fix.
Rodinal220
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I just got my M&P FS 9mm back from S&W.They said it was in-spec and no repairs needed. Sorry S&W but my M&P cant hold a candle to even my Norinco #213 9mm Tokerov as far as accuracy.
The best I can do is about 4" at 7 yards,and it just opens up from there. Trying to hit anything at 25 yards or further is a waste. All my other 9mm platforms are fine and I'm happy with the accuracy from SIG P226s,H&K P7,Beretta 92FS,BHP,Glock 17.
I tried several brands of 115 and 124 grain standard pressure FMJ and accuracy is poor.I did not have any 147gr ammo.
Over at the 10-8 forums they tested the new KKM barrel and accuracy improved,but why should I spend $200 on a new barrel.The stock barrel was lame.It seems to be hit or miss if you get a decent pistol or not.
Well I'm off to buy a XDM 5.25 9mm,my XDM .45 is a tack driver and extremely reliable so far.
This is the second stinker I purchased from S&W(BG38 revo).
The best I can do is about 4" at 7 yards,and it just opens up from there. Trying to hit anything at 25 yards or further is a waste. All my other 9mm platforms are fine and I'm happy with the accuracy from SIG P226s,H&K P7,Beretta 92FS,BHP,Glock 17.
I tried several brands of 115 and 124 grain standard pressure FMJ and accuracy is poor.I did not have any 147gr ammo.
Over at the 10-8 forums they tested the new KKM barrel and accuracy improved,but why should I spend $200 on a new barrel.The stock barrel was lame.It seems to be hit or miss if you get a decent pistol or not.
Well I'm off to buy a XDM 5.25 9mm,my XDM .45 is a tack driver and extremely reliable so far.
This is the second stinker I purchased from S&W(BG38 revo).
If youre gonna buy an XDm 9 the price difference on a trade would be worth just getting the KKM barrel. The KKM barrel will not disappoint you , I'm very pleased.
If you are LEO/Mil call KKM and you will get a small discount. It's not much but every little bit helps.
Nakanokalronin
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Is the KKM a true drop-in? I'm not sure if I want to try a barrel or wait for the Apex locking block as a cheaper option.
Yes, it was a true drop-in part. I did nothing but put some frog lube on the barrel just prior to shooting it.
I too wanted the Bar-sto/Apex barrel along with the locking block, however I grew tired of waiting. I was so pissed about the accuracy I simply put it in the safe and didnt shoot it anymore. I read Hiltons review and looked at my barrel, which profiled like the "new" production ones that S&W was claiming to make. My FS 9 (4.25 inch barrel-Pro Series) was bought new in July 2011. Since then, they reportedly changed the twist rate...that was also mentioned in Hiltons article.
As far as being cheaper...nothing from Bar-Sto is cheap. Even the storm lake barrels are priced about the same as KKM.
Apex was making the barrels for Bar-Sto. I've seen nothing (other than a blog post) on the Bar-Sto or Apex web pages that indicates when the barrels will be ready for sale and nothing about the locking block.
roughneck6
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This has been a great thread. I was in the market for a FS 9mm and was considering the M&P. My issued M&P 40 FS has been great, very accurate, no issues. I have had two M&P 45 Compact’s. The gun feels great, but the trigger is just awful and had several magazine problems with springs and followers. I did the same, APEX kits, gunsmiths, etc. The trigger was either too gritty, or to light. I finally picked up a Glock 30 SF. It is boxy feeling, but dead accurate and flawless in execution. I may go with a Glock 17 instead of the M&P 9. I find it hard to believe all the changes to the barrel and issues with accuracy and feeding with different types of ammo with the M&P 9 FS. I still wish S&W would continue with a Third Gen line of metal guns. My 4606-1 is my most reliable and accurate 45 other than the recent Glock purchase. It is frustrating to call S&W customer service and ask for a part on one of my Third Gen guns and they tell me, sorry, that line is obsolete. So much for life time warranty, I guess that only counts if the gun is still in production.
