We need concealed carry in our schools

Well said TD!!

You are right. School boards, state legislators, and federal officials respond to one thing: votes. They are generally more concerned about being re-elected than doing the right thing. They do respond to potential voters. Parents, you are much more powerful than you might think.
 
No concealed carry will EVER be legal at a school, federal law overrules state law and forbids carrying of firearms with 1000 feet of a school.

ONLY SCHOOL resource (Police) officers will be armed, frankly this idea you have of concealed carry borders on insanity in terms of even being possible to be considered. This idea will only make us look more out of touch with the reality we live in today.

You don't understand the political and legal climate we exist in today.

Because of the delusional state many CCW holders have over the 'extent' of their rights and abilities we are likely to get a 10-15 year set back in firearm rights.

I am in a blue state and I expect to be nailed this year with more laws. and I might lose some of the guns I have...

You guys don't understand the true nature of todays electorate and the young people views.

America elected Obama and a sea change of demographics is coming in 20 years. Most of you are out of touch...
 
I just learned of this last night and my heart and prayers go out to those poor souls in Connecticut. As a parent of three fabulous children this really hits me hard.

I agree we should allow carrying by licensed persons in schools. If people that work at the school want to legally carry we should let them.

And I think there should be a response cabinet, much like a fire extinguisher cabinet, that houses the tools necessary to combat an armed intruder. Perhaps it holds mace, tear gas, an assault rifle, a taser, whatever. When something like this happens we need to get tools in the hands of those on the scene to squelch the threat.


You guys are delusional. The reality is so FAR from public opinion from an average person.

Threads like these make us look completely out of touch and are completely unrealistic. AGAIN federal law mandates NO firearms within 1000 feet of a school.

When can you guys get realistic, FIREARMS are viewed as a liability by MOST people.

Unless you guys get your head around the fact that most schools and most people are NOT on our side.
 
You guys are delusional. The reality is so FAR from public opinion from an average person.

Threads like these make us look completely out of touch and are completely unrealistic. AGAIN federal law mandates NO firearms within 1000 feet of a school.

When can you guys get realistic, FIREARMS are viewed as a liability by MOST people.

Unless you guys get your head around the fact that most schools and most people are NOT on our side.

1000ft, federal law, are you serious? This must be for a "gun free school zone". I have mine with me every day up to and in the parking lot, perfectly legal.
Go inside the building, now that's a felony.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
You guys are delusional. The reality is so FAR from public opinion from an average person.

Threads like these make us look completely out of touch and are completely unrealistic. AGAIN federal law mandates NO firearms within 1000 feet of a school.

When can you guys get realistic, FIREARMS are viewed as a liability by MOST people.

Unless you guys get your head around the fact that most schools and most people are NOT on our side.

Practical, your welcome to your opinion but I disagree with you. What is your solution, its easy to condemn a logical solution to the problem....what do you have to offer for a solution? Maybe the federal law needs to be changed because it did nothing for the children at the school, it did not stop the killer and I am sure he could care less. The only thing that will stop an armed attacker is armed resistance. I honor the principal that lunged at her attacker, she lost her life but gave it all she had.I wish she had my sport in her hands, she might be alive today. You can either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Laws can be changed to allow armed protection at a school. No law is going to stop a man man that is raging....bullets will stop him but nothing else. Maybe you think realistic is wringing our hands and hope this will go away....we will see this again, you can count on it....question is, will we be prepared next time or will we remaine
delusional and unrealistic? I know many men that would take on a killer of children and would not shrink or run from what has to be done to stop him....if thats delusional and unrealistic, thats fine with me as long as the children are spared....call it what you may. If we want to be realistic...we need to consider solutions that will actually work and stop an attacker.
As long as people stick their head in the sand...this will happen again...its only a matter of time....what is your solution?
 
Not without extensive training! I do not trust the competence of most CCW holders. In Florida you can get a permit with as little as 3 hours classroom training and demonstrating that you know which end of the gun is the business end. Put a LEO in the school, not a bunch of armed amateurs.
 
I haven been around much since I’m new and recently I’ve had some computer issues, but I thought I would come over and see what was going on after Friday’s tragedy.

There is no real solution to the problem discussed. Of course the Left Wing Radical would like nothing more that to confiscate our guns. I knew as soon as I head of this tragedy that they would have even more ammunition (pun intended) to take away our guns. I also saw some of the Left Wing Radical Media’s propaganda last night. I knew it was coming.

Of course we know that the old saying that “Guns Don’t Kill People, People Kill People” I think that’s it or something to that effect. They will never get that through their thick heads. Then again that’s impossible, I guess.

I’ve always said that an individual with a Samurai Sword could have done as much killing before being taken down in all the shootings in the past including this one. These things are sold at Flea Markets and various places unregulated. I talked to one guy at a Flea Market I go to occasionally while looking for a sheath for my old hunting knife. He told me he had some that were expensive and specifically designed to take of a human head in one slice. Now who needs one of those?

Now, if a person trained in the use of these things were to perpetrate one of these killing sprees the result could be equal if not more. I know you might be thinking BS, but hang on I’ll explain. I’m sure some of you saw The last Samurai with Tom Cruise. Well, I saw Tom on Oprah after the release of the movie. She quizzed him on the training he had to go through to make the movie look real. He first told of the many hours he put in to learn how to wield the Samurai Swords. He told of the upper body strength required and how he built up his muscles in the process. He then put on a demonstration with not one, but two dummy wooden swords that weighed as much as a real one. It was incredible what he could do being an amateur more of less. I thought I could find it on YouTube, but I couldn’t. Look at some clips in the movie. That’s really him.

Now, put some crazy in the position with a couple of these swords. Untrained he could do some damage, but trained it could be disastrous. Then there is the story I read back in the spring. Google it I’m sure it’s out there. It told of 3500 Iranian women in Ninja training. I don’t exactly remember why, but I would bet the farm it wasn’t for exercise or whatever they claimed. After training all they would have to do is come to the US through our open door policy, go to any flea market and buy one of the above mentions swords and you can imagine the rest. So, guns aren’t the only threat. I hope I didn’t put an idea into a crazy’s head that reads this forum.

Now, let’s go back to the guns and the concealed carry. That’s a double edged sword (pun intended). The best policy would be as someone mentioned would to screen the people coming into a school as they do at an airport. Unfortunately, it’s probably not a feasible solution.

Now, put guns in the hands of a trained teacher. Being trained and having possession is only part of it. The real life situation plays in there real heavily. In a real fire fight none of us can say for sure what would happen. Oh, we might boast as to what we would do, but would it really happen as we think. The lead would be flying in two directions instead of one and how many innocent bystanders would be hit by the said teacher’s fire before and IF the perpetrator could be taken down by an armed teacher.

Then, there is the factor of the gunman having the draw, so to speak, on the said teacher. Would they be able to take down the perpetrator before being taken down. Then, would one of the other teachers that were also armed be able to come to the rescue without harming an innocent child or fellow teacher and not get shot themselves? Having a gun in this type situation might just do more harm than good. It would surely draw the first fire of the perpetrator.

Bottom line, I don’t know the solution any more than the rest of you, but there are several factors to be considered. Not taking away our guns.

A search and apprehend of crazies that might perpetrate one of these shootings would be more sensible, but that would be impossible. I don’t know that’s for sure.
 
They wouldn't have to train 100,000 teachers. Just allow concealed carry in schools by those who hold a permit. Cowards go to gun-free zones for a reason. All you need is the POSSIBILITY that a teacher or administrator is armed, and these cowards will look elsewhere for victims.

I wonder why the media is not covering the mall shooting this weekend in happy Valley, Oregon? A guy wearing a hockey mask and carrying a semi-auto rifle killed 2 people in the mall, but when the shooter spotted a citizen with a handgun behind a pillar, the shooter took his own life. These people are cowards and part of their plan is to kill themselves before they can be apprehended.

But citizens protecting themselves and others is not part of the media agenda.
 
I haven been around much since I’m new and recently I’ve had some computer issues, but I thought I would come over and see what was going on after Friday’s tragedy.

There is no real solution to the problem discussed. Of course the Left Wing Radical would like nothing more that to confiscate our guns. I knew as soon as I head of this tragedy that they would have even more ammunition (pun intended) to take away our guns. I also saw some of the Left Wing Radical Media’s propaganda last night. I knew it was coming.

Of course we know that the old saying that “Guns Don’t Kill People, People Kill People” I think that’s it or something to that effect. They will never get that through their thick heads. Then again that’s impossible, I guess.

I’ve always said that an individual with a Samurai Sword could have done as much killing before being taken down in all the shootings in the past including this one. These things are sold at Flea Markets and various places unregulated. I talked to one guy at a Flea Market I go to occasionally while looking for a sheath for my old hunting knife. He told me he had some that were expensive and specifically designed to take of a human head in one slice. Now who needs one of those?

Now, if a person trained in the use of these things were to perpetrate one of these killing sprees the result could be equal if not more. I know you might be thinking BS, but hang on I’ll explain. I’m sure some of you saw The last Samurai with Tom Cruise. Well, I saw Tom on Oprah after the release of the movie. She quizzed him on the training he had to go through to make the movie look real. He first told of the many hours he put in to learn how to wield the Samurai Swords. He told of the upper body strength required and how he built up his muscles in the process. He then put on a demonstration with not one, but two dummy wooden swords that weighed as much as a real one. It was incredible what he could do being an amateur more of less. I thought I could find it on YouTube, but I couldn’t. Look at some clips in the movie. That’s really him.

Now, put some crazy in the position with a couple of these swords. Untrained he could do some damage, but trained it could be disastrous. Then there is the story I read back in the spring. Google it I’m sure it’s out there. It told of 3500 Iranian women in Ninja training. I don’t exactly remember why, but I would bet the farm it wasn’t for exercise or whatever they claimed. After training all they would have to do is come to the US through our open door policy, go to any flea market and buy one of the above mentions swords and you can imagine the rest. So, guns aren’t the only threat. I hope I didn’t put an idea into a crazy’s head that reads this forum.

Now, let’s go back to the guns and the concealed carry. That’s a double edged sword (pun intended). The best policy would be as someone mentioned would to screen the people coming into a school as they do at an airport. Unfortunately, it’s probably not a feasible solution.

Now, put guns in the hands of a trained teacher. Being trained and having possession is only part of it. The real life situation plays in there real heavily. In a real fire fight none of us can say for sure what would happen. Oh, we might boast as to what we would do, but would it really happen as we think. The lead would be flying in two directions instead of one and how many innocent bystanders would be hit by the said teacher’s fire before and IF the perpetrator could be taken down by an armed teacher.

Then, there is the factor of the gunman having the draw, so to speak, on the said teacher. Would they be able to take down the perpetrator before being taken down. Then, would one of the other teachers that were also armed be able to come to the rescue without harming an innocent child or fellow teacher and not get shot themselves? Having a gun in this type situation might just do more harm than good. It would surely draw the first fire of the perpetrator.

Bottom line, I don’t know the solution any more than the rest of you, but there are several factors to be considered. Not taking away our guns.

A search and apprehend of crazies that might perpetrate one of these shootings would be more sensible, but that would be impossible. I don’t know that’s for sure.


It works in Israel.

http://americansstandwithisrael.blogspot.com/2012/12/we-should-arm-every-teacher-to-prevent.html

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2012/12/17/why-israel-has-no-sandy-hooks/
 
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Maybe I should clarify from my post. I don't think every teacher should be carrying at school, however I do think the states that have special police statutes should use them in this case. Train teachers willing as these police officers and they in essence become the School Police, not just teachers with guns.

You guys can jump on me all you want, but I believe if you carry you should have training. It just makes sense. If you are to carry in a school, or anywhere else you are protecting others, you need special training.

I don't know the answer, but I do know we need to start asking the tough questions and working on answers instead of politics. I have a 2 1/2 year old son and I am not sure he would be safe at school in my area. Not a good thing.
TD
 
I know all of you have read all the media's anti gun stuff, but I was amazed at all the articles just in the normal internet news on AOL. Here's what I found just this morning.

Cerberus Capital, Owner Of Gun Manufacturer Freedom Group, Will Sell Off All Assets In Firearms

Gun Rights Groups' New Social Media Policy: Don't Use It

The Gun Lobby: Why The NRA Is The Baddest Force In Politics

Gun Owners Of America Steals Newtown Gun Debate Spotlight While NRA Hides

Mark Warner: Gun Control Is Needed (VIDEO)

Jim Boeheim Gun Control Speech: Syracuse Coach Calls For Assault Weapon Ban After Win 900 (VIDEO)

U.S. Gun Violence 'Slow Drip' Continues Despite Connecticut Shootings

» Americans Turn In Guns After School Massacre Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

This is the one that seems logical to me. Y’all correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t all the perpetrators of these shootings been crazy?

Gun Control Laws Fail To Keep Mentally Ill Away From Guns

Gun Sales In 2012 Set Record, FBI Data Indicates

Assault Weapons Ban Won't Help, Says Larry Hyatt, North Carolina Gun Store Owner (VIDEO)

I guess before it's all said and done they will have our military back in the stone ages. Rocks, spears, clubs, and eventually on to advanced weapons like sling shots, bows and arrows.

Our former fighter jets will be pink without any arms and have a message trailing on the streamer sign behind them saying, Now Y'all Don't do That.

Then our Navy will have pink ships also and have The Good Ship Lollipop on the sides, disarmed too of course.

Then the Coast Guard will turn into some kind of yacht club.

Only in America. As Earl Pitts always said at the end of his radio spot, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!
 
I am ex military with a quite a bit of firearms experience. I am also now retired and would volunteer time if they would pay for required state certification. It would be a good thing for ex LEO or ex military to be able to do this, but I know it will never happen.
Russ
 
concealed carry in schools

Israel allows teachers to be armed in school, some of them even keep an AK strapped over their shoulder so all they have to do is swing it around and start shooting.

Give our teachers the option to CCW if they wish. When someone is slaughtering teachers and kids there is no time for talk, shoot the shooter.

Either teachers carry or have two armed security people at all schools.
 
While some retirees would be able to help others would not. If implemented a "school police" would need to understand education as much as law. This needs to be taken serious enough to be a professional addition to the school system, not a second career after retirement.

TD
 
While some retirees would be able to help others would not. If implemented a "school police" would need to understand education as much as law. This needs to be taken serious enough to be a professional addition to the school system, not a second career after retirement.

TD


I keep seeing this reference that education is different and must be understood by guards.

In my opinion, it could only come from a heads in the clouds dreamer.

Or from a teacher with a big ego.

Many jurisdictions have "resource officers", which is bureaucratic speak for a cop assigned to school duty.

They are still cops.

When the shooting starts, being a cop is what counts.

Or someone trained to do a certain portion of what cops do.

Look at what they do in Israel. We can either learn from them or we can sit around and discuss whether cops are smart enough to fit into the school system and various other very intellectual topics while more kids get killed.

Incidentally, I find it amusing....gallows humour maybe, that educators don't think a cop is smart enough to work in the school system when there are so many teachers who have already demonstrated that they are not.

Witness the decline in test scores.

What the "educators" need to do is get off their high horse, quit spouting that guns in schools carried by people that don't understand the school system, etc., are not acceptable or safe, and do something concrete to protect the kids.
 
I agree with the training bit...as far as knowing how you will react in combat...many Vets here have served in combat and been in more than one fire fight trading bullets with more than one threat at a time. It does work in Israel and we could learn a lesson from them...but to think we are not capable of dealing with a criminal threat to our children is unrealistic. Right now...they have no protection, funding is not going to happen in this financial climate, I would rather do something than do nothing.....It is only sheer luck that this man killed himself...he could have done a lot more damage than he did.....even one man with a weapon could have made a difference...training or no training.......Many of us shoot all the time...so hitting a target is something we are used to...difference being some targets shoot back and some of us here have been on that end also. Criminals can be dealt with but a "Gun Free Zone" is just a sign saying...there is no one here to stop your rage. Retired Vets could fill in the Gap untill they can get trained people to do this...but lots of luck with that. Armed resistance is the only thing that will work.
 
The thing that scares me the most is the denial I see.

Armed people at schools won't help. That's denial.

Retired / off duty / ex-military / none of those will work. That's denial.

Just make more anti-gun laws. That's denial.

The problem exists and we should be doing something! Bad guys want to have soft targets to do maximum damage. The BEST thing we can do is make our targets less soft. Putting a retired cop in plain clothes sitting near the main entrance will DEFINITELY be a benefit for a school's safety.
 
I keep seeing this reference that education is different and must be understood by guards.

In my opinion, it could only come from a heads in the clouds dreamer.

Or from a teacher with a big ego.

Many jurisdictions have "resource officers", which is bureaucratic speak for a cop assigned to school duty.

They are still cops.

When the shooting starts, being a cop is what counts.

Or someone trained to do a certain portion of what cops do.

Look at what they do in Israel. We can either learn from them or we can sit around and discuss whether cops are smart enough to fit into the school system and various other very intellectual topics while more kids get killed.

Incidentally, I find it amusing....gallows humour maybe, that educators don't think a cop is smart enough to work in the school system when there are so many teachers who have already demonstrated that they are not.

Witness the decline in test scores.

What the "educators" need to do is get off their high horse, quit spouting that guns in schools carried by people that don't understand the school system, etc., are not acceptable or safe, and do something concrete to protect the kids.

Get defensive much?

If I made it sound like a LEO wasn't smart enough to work in a school I did not mean to intentionally. Some of my best friends are LEO and are some of the most intelligent people I know. I was trying to get the point across that school systems are just different than a normal jurisdiction with different issues.

If you really think test scores truly tell you how smart a kid is I am also very sorry. But standardized tests are an entire new debate.

We have one resource police officer in my school. He does a great job, but is one person watching 1600 students. He is on the parking lot directing traffic in the morning and after school. Again, he does a great job but he is one person. I would welcome a recently retired LEO as long as he could still do the job.

This debate will make us argue, disagree, fight, and debate. I consider it healthy, but maybe I'm one of "those" educators. And BTW, I do something concrete everyday to protect my students.

TD
 
Get defensive much?

If I made it sound like a LEO wasn't smart enough to work in a school I did not mean to intentionally. Some of my best friends are LEO and are some of the most intelligent people I know. I was trying to get the point across that school systems are just different than a normal jurisdiction with different issues.

If you really think test scores truly tell you how smart a kid is I am also very sorry. But standardized tests are an entire new debate.

We have one resource police officer in my school. He does a great job, but is one person watching 1600 students. He is on the parking lot directing traffic in the morning and after school. Again, he does a great job but he is one person. I would welcome a recently retired LEO as long as he could still do the job.

This debate will make us argue, disagree, fight, and debate. I consider it healthy, but maybe I'm one of "those" educators. And BTW, I do something concrete everyday to protect my students.

TD

If you really think test scores truly tell you how smart a kid is I am also very sorry. But standardized tests are an entire new debate.

I don't.

Graduation rates are more important.

I was in high school during WWII.

Small country school. Before the invasion of our schools by the DC criminals.

Every single student who made it to the 8th grade graduated.

At our 50 year reunion, I was very much impressed by how deeply religious my classmates are.

As for cops in schools, one per 1000 students is about the same as none except for controlling the occasional bad student. I would imagine it would take four to six to cover a building of that size and the likelihood of that is zero to none because of the cost.

So in a school of that size there is bound to be a few teachers that served in the military who could take some training. Plus a few more that either have a CCW or are familiar with weapons in one way or another.

You would not need to arm every teacher, just a few.

And local retired cops who would serve for very little pay, just some spending money to go with their retirement pay.

It would beat sitting in the Lazy-Boy watching Judge Judy and the stock car races.

1000 students would require a minimum of 25 teachers. Add to that the supervisory and office staff and you must have 35 or so people. Now if only 5 or six of them would take the training and carry, that plus the resource officer would be a very serious deterrent.
 

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