We need concealed carry in our schools

[davegarage]

Denial is the huge issue here folks

We have issues in America designating who is competent to own and operate a weapon capable of discharging enough rounds in a short period of time to do this sort of damage. We know this as fact from our own law.

How many of you need more the 3 shots at your target Deer? I have never used an assault rifle to kill a deer. I do not own an assault rifle.

Winchester 30-30 is the way to take your animal.

Like I said, Animal.

Assault style rapid fire, no stock, small cal. have no use.





I have no words that can help a mother of a six year old killed by an

idiot. Not even 20.

The thing that scares me the most is the denial I see.

Armed people at schools won't help. That's denial.

Retired / off duty / ex-military / none of those will work. That's denial.

Just make more anti-gun laws. That's denial.

The problem exists and we should be doing something! Bad guys want to have soft targets to do maximum damage. The BEST thing we can do is make our targets less soft. Putting a retired cop in plain clothes sitting near the main entrance will DEFINITELY be a benefit for a school's safety.

 

[bubba t]

Hey guys look what one of our local geniuses sent in to the local newspaper in the anonymous opinion section called Sound Off.

Purpose of guns

Guns do kill people. While someone may be murdered by being run over with a car the function of the car is not to kill others, it is to transport from point A to point B. While a murder can be committed with a knife, the primary function of the knife is to aid in the preparation of food. The sole and only purpose of a gun is to kill living creatures, which include 6-year-old children. Don't ever say guns don't kill people, because that's an outright lie.

I'm going to write a response and see if they print it. If they do I'll post it here.

On second thought, even if they don't print it I'll post my response so it can at least be read by someone other than me.

 

[cmort666]

How many of you need more the 3 shots at your target Deer? I have never used an assault rifle to kill a deer. I do not own an assault rifle.

I don't need ANY shots to kill a deer.

I don't hunt.

Is it your assertion that the ONLY reason to own a gun is hunting?

Find for me ANYWHERE in the text of the 2nd Amendment the words "hunt" or "hunting".

Assault style rapid fire, no stock, small cal. have no use.

I'm guessing you've never heard of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

Who made YOU the arbiter of what OTHER people "need"?

Something to look for in posts during a big push for control:

• Claims to be a gun owner, but knows nothing about guns.
• Uses common anti-gun buzzwords such as "assault weapon".
• Knows nothing about existing law, but calls for new harsh and repressive gun laws.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

I know that getting concealed carry in schools is going to be a hard row to hoe now.

I know quite a few people who were signed up, here in Michigan, to take the
"Advanced CPL" class that would have allowed concealed carry in our "exempt zones."
Schools being one of them.

They tried to get me to sign up saying that the Bill had been passed and it only
required the Governor's signature and since he supported it that it was a done deal.
I was taking the "not counting my chickens before they were hatched" approach.

Guess what? The Gov is now going to veto the Bill.
So close, yet so far away...........

 

[gdauth]

No, no, no! What we need is professional security, someone who has training to handle these situations. We don't need a bunch of untrained people with guns in schools. If we need security we should be willing to pay for it. I go to the range once a week and a lot of these nimrods can't hit the black at 25' under ideal conditions. Imagine the results when they are under stress and facing someone with a gun who is wearing body armor.

 

[bubba t]

Okay guys her's what I sent in.

You're Still Wrong

Let's see here. In their beginnings guns were used as you say to kill living creatures. Why, because humans needed to eat wild animals along with domestic animals, especially during the pioneer days of the US and the technology of gun development improved that process. Then they were adapted to Defense. Many an army has used them in the past and you would not be here today writing in if it hadn't been for guns and weapons. A gun fully loaded is nothing more than an inanimate object. Put it in the hands of a Human Being and you do indeed have a weapon that can be used for various things. Hunting, target shooting, self defense, and military use. When and only when the Wrong Human Being (criminals & mentally disturbed) picks up a gun and uses it to kill another Human Being or Beings is when guns kill people. I don't think I know of a case where a gun spontaneously went out on its own and killed a human. So, you just can't rule out that Human Being/People element in the equation. THE WRONG PEOPLE do kill other people. They may use a gun, but your knife, Samurai Sword, baseball bat, hammer, pipe wrench and a whole host of other things will also kill people in the wrong hands, but not by themselves. So, don't blame the gun/inanimate object when the people factor is number one.

If and when they print it and I've been lucky with them in the past, I'll provide the link to the published version. It will surely show a ton of editing if it is printed.

Just saw this:

Newtown Shooting & Entertainment: Film & TV Industries Cancel Premieres & Screenings In Tragedy's Wake

When will it end? The families and all involved in Connecticut don't want to hear and see all of this. I happened to catch Dr. Phil yesterday. He and a couple other doctors had gone to Newtown, Ct to counsel some of the families. The ones he had on were the parents with surviving children and a former bus driver who had taken many of the children to and from school in the past.

Dr. Phil specifically told the parents to isolate the children from the media coverage of this sad incident. He also told them not to quiz the children on what happened, but to let them bring it up and get it out in their own time, more or less. It looks as though these children will have to be in isolation for a long time.

Boy, what the media will do to get a story and keep it alive so they can look good and sell advertising. They for sure don't give a da** about the people involved. Only in America.

 

[jmcghee]

I think the best idea so far, to combat school shootings, is current LEO and retired LEO, volunteering as guards.

 

[old curmudgeon]

No, no, no! What we need is professional security, someone who has training to handle these situations. We don't need a bunch of untrained people with guns in schools. If we need security we should be willing to pay for it. I go to the range once a week and a lot of these nimrods can't hit the black at 25' under ideal conditions. Imagine the results when they are under stress and facing someone with a gun who is wearing body armor.

Don't you read before you post?

Every one here who has suggested CCW in schools has also suggested training.

The only variations on that have been how much and what kind of training.

That would be for security workers.

CCW should still be allowed for the visitor.

Your argument would men that CCW should not be allowed in any public place and that cops should not fire in public...only out in the woods.

 

[old curmudgeon]

We have issues in America designating who is competent to own and operate a weapon capable of discharging enough rounds in a short period of time to do this sort of damage. We know this as fact from our own law.

How many of you need more the 3 shots at your target Deer? I have never used an assault rifle to kill a deer. I do not own an assault rifle.

Winchester 30-30 is the way to take your animal.

Like I said, Animal.

Assault style rapid fire, no stock, small cal. have no use.





I have no words that can help a mother of a six year old killed by an

idiot. Not even 20.

If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

Protect your privacy. Replace Google with https://startpage.com/

 

[Riverkilt]

My prediction is Schizophrenia in the sad Connecticut massacre. Age is right for a Schizophrenic break. Pretty much impossible to predict that first break. Only someone suffering from delusions, hallucinations, paranoia, or all three could shoot their mother and young children multiple times. Don't know if I'm right - but that's my guess based on the fuzzy facts. We shall see.....

The best therapist can't predict Schizophrenia or prevent that initial break.

 

[bubba t]

Riverkilt you're probably right. Of course, we all knew that he was some kind of crazy, we just weren't sure which kind.

I read an article yesterday that said his mother was in the process of having him committed. It was already in the court system. He was mad and that was probably why she was his first target before going to the school. We may never really know, but my theory is that he was bullied when he attended that school. I don't know, I haven't read all the articles on the matter, but were any of the current teachers his former teachers? If so and if not I guess, in his whacked out mind he probably blamed them also for the being committed business. Then, he was probably getting retaliation for the bullying he received while at the school. That's just my unprofessional SWAG. I did take about two or three psychology classes some 38 years ago. That's just enough to make me dangerous in the shrink field.

I just thought of this. I'd almost bet the farm that it will come out that he was diagnosed Bipolar. That seems to be a catch all these days and I think the old "schizoid" diagnosis falls in there today, not really sure. He was probably off his meds and wouldn't take them and that's why his mother was trying to have him committed. Hopefully, this unfortunate incident will make the courts around the country expedite the process in these type cases, but I doubt it.

A good bit of our population is running around out there with the Bipolar diagnosis. My wife sees cases from time to time. She works for a neurosurgeon that specializes in neck and back surgery. He gave up the "head cases" aka brain surgery many years ago. Anyway, they had a young lady come in a while back in her late twenties to early thirties with a back problem. She was on Medicare/Medicaid. If you don't know, on a young person, that's a key indicator of Disability. Both my wife and the doctor quizzed her as to why she was on Disability. Her response to my wife was "I'm Bipolar baby". My wife saw red, needless to say. Maybe the doc should have done a little brain surgery on her to help straighten her out.

Anyway, the Bipolar/Schizos out there may need to be monitored a little bit closer if they truly are Bipolar/Schizoid. The reason I say "if" is because there are cases probably where a person hounds a doctor until he may just go ahead and say they are bipolar just to get rid of them. And then they go on to get on Disability.

So, the real problem here, in my opinion, naturally it's not the guns. It was a crazy who wasn't processed through the court system fast enough bottom line.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

[TexasArmed]

It did not take long for a response to the NRA proposal to arm guards in school. As for me, its a case of running off the shepard, the only thing standing between their children and the wolves. I believe that in Texas we already have this in some schools, not all of them and at least it works. Anyone who says it won't work ought to be in favor of disbanding the Secret Service as well.

But it appears to me, that the sheep will be led down the path of disarming law abiding citisens. Any disposable income I have can't go for donations when I have to put mine out to protect the rights of law abiding citisens, including my right of self defense.

I only own revolvers, not semiautomatics, but I am smart enough to know that those who come after the semiautomatics and go for gun control will want to disarm
law abiding citisens completely. More of making the USA like Europe. Now I hear that milk may go to $8 per gallon, because the would be king can't work things out, except for having everything his way including gun control.

 

[Knochen]

GFSZA thoughts from a retired teacher

The Gun-Free School Zone Act allows for licensed conceal carriers to enter school zones, but not in buildings (weapon left in vehicle when entering the building) unless employed as security by the school. (I know, for example, that in our courthouse lawyers regularly conceal carry even now.) States have passed their own laws regarding the exercise of this law. I do believe it must be left to each USD as to what would work best for them. Even special PD squads are given training to deal with acts of terrorism--nothing less would be expected of volunteer retired LEO's, military, teachers and administrators who have their CCW, or even a regular PD officer to take on this added responsibility. At least part of that training I assume would take place in the actual buildings to teach shooting in close quarters, posting, practicing various scenarios, SOP's for particular areas of the building where the assault may take place. If school personnel is used I think they should be anonymous except to each other and the admin because the perp could arise from within. Teachers and admin could be used within and paid perhaps extra duty pay, avoiding the cost of a full-time LEO. At any rate the cost of security doesn't stop with the hiring of individuals...there are also insurance liability costs, all of which schools may not be willing to shoulder. It indeed will be interesting the course our country will take on this issue as all the debates, posturing, and costs are considered...or not. I agree with others who have stated that just the threat of the presence of armed security may deter a potential perp. Gun-free zones are good only for those who would seek to do harm. BTW, Radical Islamic groups have yet to capitalize on their threats against schools here in the U.S. as in other countries. A matter of time??

 

[edprof]

I agree with mc5aw mostly, as a public school teacher from fourth grade through high school for eight years and a teacher educator now for 31 years. Teachers who aren't really solid at their jobs and/or who don't feel comfortable with handguns shouldn't be pressed into carrying. That wouldn't be me, though; I have talked with my state senator here in Arkansas about legislation allowing teachers with concealed carry licenses to carry in schools and also allowing concealed carry holders to carry into church buildings. Both sites are incredibly soft targets.

 

[PERAZZI]

Practical, your knowledge is flawed. State law establishes gun free zones within states. Federal law on federal properties such as federal buildings.

Michigan just came within a day of allowing CPL holders the right to carry in most state gun free zones...

but, I do not want to see armed teachers. I believe a security force is a better solution. Schools are miniature prisons. There is a small core group that will do whatever necessary to get the weapons away from the teachers. For the same reason you don't have armed yard guards.

Interesting that Obama sends his kids to a school with an 11 person security force....

 

[cbr6864]

Most schools around me already have a police officer on site....my problem would be with teachers lacking any real training all those rounds have to go somewhere. The thing is you can not prevent crazy plain and simple. You just cant plan ahead for every crazy nut job because their actions can not be predicted. Best thing to do is secure entry points as well as you can, upgrade glass and doors to be bullet resistant along with solid locks and have an active police officer onsite......a real one not like most I see at our schools who look to be about 75lbs overweight and a day from retirement.

 

[miles71]

Then get the teachers who wish to volunteer for this the training to supplement a security or LEO presence.

My biggest fear is nothing will change.
TD

 

[cmort666]

Most schools around me already have a police officer on site....my problem would be with teachers lacking any real training all those rounds have to go somewhere.

I suppose it depends upon whether you prefer the CHANCE of being accidentally WOUNDED by somebody shooting at a mass murderer or the CERTAINTY of being knelt down and KILLED, shot in the back of the head execution style by that same murderer.

Some people prefer the latter.

I'm not one of them.

Personally, I figure I've got no worse odds with the average school teacher with a concealed carry credential, than I do with the NYPD or the Cleveland PD.

 

[Schlepprock]

It has been said...The only thing that can stop a "BAD" guy with a gun..is a "GOOD" guy with a gun..

I don't have the answers,but like has also been said..A new/good intended law will NOT stop a criminal..

 

[Buffalohunter60]

I agree that training is important. Funds will not be available for security....so volunters or teachers wiling to take the responsibility are all I see happening. I do not think a responder needs to know a lot about the education system but I tyhink he/she need to know about dealing with a deadly threat and knowing how to shoot. Using a weapon that will not over penetrate the target but will do the job. We are not going to get people trained to the level of Delta or seal teams trained to deal with terrorists, but remember...the criminal probably has no combat experience and is not used to bullets coming at him either and his concentration will not be on killing children when he is under fire. Yes, there is a risk to innocent bystanders and they could be hit by return fire, the alternative would be to give the criminal free rein (not acceptable). No matter what anyone thinks, resistance would make a difference and the guard needs back-up incase he is killed or injured engaging the criminal. There are enough ex leo's and military to fill the gap and just the threat of armed resistance may make the criminal look for softer targets. These people are cowards and have no intention of fighting armed resistance. It may not be the best answer but it is a responce to a situtation that right now has no responce. Airline piolets became armed for a good reason......The president is protected by armed guards, court houses are protected by armed guards....why??? because it works. The principal had the guts to engage the attacker and she had no means of resistance except her body, but she did not go to the slaughter like a sheep and did all she could do.....had she been armed, it could have turned out better.