2.23 vs 5.56

[riderrick65]

As a new-b to the AR-15 platform, I would like to know which is the better ammo .223 or 5.56? I am not a hunter so the ammo choice would be basically for the range (shooting paper/steel plates) or three gun competition. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Arik]

Every rifle behaves differently with different ammo. Try as many as you can. Commercial 223 has more variety than 5.56.

You may find your rifle loves cheap wolf ammo. But if youre just plinking any ammo will do

 

[rojodiablo]

Well........ 2.23 will not fit into an AR. That's a bullet around the size of a small artillery shell.
But, if you are looking between .223 and 5.56?? The .223 works just fine. As stated, lots more variants available. I stick to the Wolf/WPA ammo, as it costs less to shoot, and you will be surprised, it is fairly accurate stuff!
Will it work for defense??? Not as well as the 2.23 you were inquiring about......... but it will work just as well as the 5.56.

 

[riderrick65]

Reply to Thread

Well........ 2.23 will not fit into an AR. That's a bullet around the size of a small artillery shell.
But, if you are looking between .223 and 5.56?? The .223 works just fine. As stated, lots more variants available. I stick to the Wolf/WPA ammo, as it costs less to shoot, and you will be surprised, it is fairly accurate stuff!
Will it work for defense??? Not as well as the 2.23 you were inquiring about......... but it will work just as well as the 5.56.

I guess I had a fat finger on that one 2.23 LOL. Thnx for the info. though, it will get me started in the right direction.

 

[crofoot629]

5.56 is faster, and higher pressure than .223.
So with the same bullet you essentially extend your range with 5.56.

I'm surprised no one has mentions this.
.223 is safe in any 5.56 chambered firearm, as of course 5.56 is too.

5.56 is not safe to shoot in .223 chambered firearms.

My AR's are for self defense. I only buy 5.56. 5.56 extends the terminal ballistic envelope.

Emory

 

[boss281]

While this link won't answer your question directly, it's good basic information on the ammo caliber itself: The AR15.com Ammo Oracle

 

[riderrick65]

Reply to Thread

Thanks everyone for the great info., this should get me started in the right direction! Since this is Christmas Eve day, I would like to wish everybody a Merry Christmas!

 

[Arik]

5.56 is not safe to shoot in .223 chambered firearms.

Emory

I dont buy that argument with ARs made in the last 10-15 years. If so then we would hear nothing but kabooms from youtube commandos. Any modern AR 223 or not will handle both.

And while you do get more pressure from 5.56 its the 75gr 223 bullets that get better distance.

 

[PunisherBane]

I dont buy that argument with ARs made in the last 10-15 years. If so then we would hear nothing but kabooms from youtube commandos. Any modern AR 223 or not will handle both.

And while you do get more pressure from 5.56 its the 75gr 223 bullets that get better distance.

i think he was refering to non AR platforms such as a ruger mini14 or some bolt action rifles that are chambered specifically to .223... shoot a 5.56 through one of those and there could be complications...

 

[HotRoderX]

I would say what ever you can find cheaper and the rifle is accurate with. I found my rifle loves Tula ammo its cheap steel cased Russian stuff in .223

 

[Maddmax]

Just Google "5.56mm vs. .223" to find exhaustive discussion of this issue, and also see what SAAMI has to say about this. It IS NOT SAFE to load 5.56 into .223 chamber,but the reverse is ok. You might get by with it for awhile,BUT you are playing with fire.... The "jump" space (leade) is different (longer) on the 5.56 and you are cramming the bullet into the riflings on a .223 and causing a dangerous pressure build up NOT having that "jump" space. Some people have re-chambered their .223's to 5.56 and got buy with doing that. Be Safe Not Stupid.

Note that the maximum CUP pressure;
The 5.56 is 62,366 psi.
The .223 Remington is 55,000 psi.

 

[oneyeopn]

I was looking for manufacturers that make this platform in .223 only and there are some, one that comes to mind is Les Baer, it cost twice to three times as much as our M&P15's and is chambered for .223 only, I would have thought that if you bought this platform it would have a 5.56 Nato Chamber, a Wylde Chamber or an Armalite Chamber which all three will shoot both 5.56x45 or .223 but I am finding these platforms with .223 chambers and I myself am glad I have the Sports. I would hate to be restricted in my ammo choices.

 

[rojodiablo]

Just Google "5.56mm vs. .223" to find exhaustive discussion of this issue, and also see what SAAMI has to say about this. It IS NOT SAFE to load 5.56 into .223 chamber,but the reverse is ok. You might get by with it for awhile,BUT you are playing with fire.... The "jump" space (leade) is different (longer) on the 5.56 and you are cramming the bullet into the riflings on a .223 and causing a dangerous pressure build up NOT having that "jump" space. Some people have re-chambered their .223's to 5.56 and got buy with doing that. Be Safe Not Stupid.

Note that the maximum CUP pressure;
The 5.56 is 62,366 psi.
The .223 Remington is 55,000 psi.

All firearms sold listing a SAAMI spec. caliber ammunition are proof tested to 150% of maximum pressure. Though the rated pressure of a .223 is 55,000- the rifles are tested to a pressure that is in excess of about 100,000. 82,500 is 150% of the standard .223. Rifles are tested with a wide margin of error, and that is why anone who knows reloading and rifle building ALWAYS looks suspiciously at a person who says " I loaded my stuff to SAAMI specs and it blew up the barrel."

Guaranteed, a .223 loaded to scream downrange at 3,500FPS is loaded HOTTER than 5.56 NATO ammo. That is the truth, so varmint shooters should keep that as a little reminder.

When SAAMI spec's out a chamber designation, and pressures for an ammunition, the gun manufacturer MUST warn against using anything other than a SAAMI specc'ed load in their firearm for liability reasons.
The really old Mini-14 was a rifle which does have some issues with ANY hot loaded rounds put in it. My understanding is it was a material hardening issue from the get-go. Modern mini 14's have no such problems, yet it does highlight a serious safety issue.
Any modern varmint .223 would eat 5.56 all day long without issue. Hope if anyone was trying to understand the .223 to 5.56 difference that this helps a little.
The issue with the leade being shorter on .223 is a function of accuracy- as BOTH the .223 and 5.56 of equal weight are the same OAL. If you get into 75 and 80 gr. ammo, they are longer and will not usually feed from a magazine in an AR, though they will fire just fine loaded one at a time.
Reloaders will play extensively with overall length, looking for that magic spacing where the bullet meets the rifling perfectly, with minimal harmonic disruption and retaining just the right amount of chamber pressure to get the bullet to fly exactly like they want it. To the average shooter, this means nothing. But to a 1,000yard match guy, this means a lot to him. He is trying to squeeze the bullet spin tighter to hit a pie plate at 1000+ yards, while with our M&P Sport, we would be looking thru the peep sights at nothing more than a blur downrange, trying to hit a moving van sized target.
The best thing about following SAAMI specs is that your barrel will last longer without burning it out. And that is important to everyone who is investing money in their rifles and expect to see a long service life from them!

 

[Maddmax]

The really old Mini-14 was a rifle which does have some issues with ANY hot loaded rounds put in it. My understanding is it was a material hardening issue from the get-go. Modern mini 14's have no such problems, yet it does highlight a serious safety issue.
Any modern varmint .223 would eat 5.56 all day long without issue. Hope if anyone was trying to understand the .223 to 5.56 difference that this helps a little.

I had some old friends that started out with the early model "180" series Mini-14's and they did have some serious problems shooting 5.56 and also reloading .223 hotter...as in pushing just past the limits. Luckily no one was hurt much beyond dirty shorts. Not too funny at the time,but we laugh and look back now. I walked in about mid "181" series with very few problems. I also had my Mini rechambered to 5.56 by a good friends Dad that worked at Rock Island Arsenal (and liked the Mini 14's). His Dad has probably forgot more about weapons than most of us will ever know. He was already one up on the Mini 14 problems and gave mine a great fix and did test results to make sure us young (at the time),"idiots" wouldn't blow ourselves or the rifle up shooting "hot" reloads. I have mine dialed in at around 3200fps shooting 53gr FMJBTHP,s (very small hole in the tip) and 55gr FMJBT. It WILL give other Mini's a good run for the money and leave them in the dust. Took awhile,but I did get back into the AR's. The Colts left a bad bad taste after the late 60's early 70's with all their problems. BUT,the S&W M&P line came out and with the help of a few good friends on this forum... I now own 4 AR's. 1 RR, 2 M&P AR 15's,"T" & SPORT (looking at a 3rd & 4th when things settle down Sport X and a 15OR) and the M&P AR 15-22 plinker. I must say,I'm happy with them all thanks to a little help from some great people on this site.

 

[Mack]

There are more differences between the two, the 5.56 has thicker brass and a crimped in primer and is loaded hotter and closer to a max load to meet fps specs. This means there is less margin for error, the most common problem with firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber is popped primers which can tie up your rifle. This can also happen in a 5.56 chamber with over pressure Lots of ammo. It is pretty easy to go from a .223 to a 5.56 chamber if you have a 5.56 reamer.

 

[Maddmax]

There are more differences between the two, the 5.56 has thicker brass and a crimped in primer and is loaded hotter and closer to a max load to meet fps specs. This means there is less margin for error, the most common problem with firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber is popped primers which can tie up your rifle. This can also happen in a 5.56 chamber with over pressure Lots of ammo. It is pretty easy to go from a .223 to a 5.56 chamber if you have a 5.56 reamer.

The crimped primer is for full auto and also belt fed weapons. It's so the primers don't pop out under sustained fire.

I've never had any "poped primer" problems in over 50 years of shooting.

The fps spec. is for pushing a 55gr.FMJ bullet.

You also need to be dead on when reamering a 223 to a 5.56 chamber. AND,it's still built/made as a .223 chamber reguardless. You are only making the chamber longer to fit the 5.56 case neck.

 

[WR Moore]

There are more differences between the two, the 5.56 has thicker brass ........and is loaded hotter and closer to a max load to meet fps specs. .

Brass thickness depends upon who makes the brass. All ATK companies (CCI, Federal & Speer) are using the same brass for all .223/5.56 loads. I suspect many others are also doing so to cut tooling and other production costs.

Since the 5.56mm round has a non-SAAMI pressure specification with higher pressures it also has a resulting higher maximum chamber pressure. 5.56mm pressures may be higher than for a .223 round, but that's not carved in stone in the actual ammo. The factories load to a velocity specification, not a pressure spec. The published pressures are max allowable production pressures, not necessarily what any individual ammo lot will produce. The ammo factories do use non-canister powders we can't buy.

There is suffient variation between individual chambers (Not to mention that the Wylde .223 chamber will allow use of the 5.56mm round without pressure issues.) and the specifications of different brands of reamers that blindly carving away at a .223 chamber with a 5.56 reamer is not only stupid but potentially dangerous. Trained professionals are another story, but given the varying 'qualifications', I'd be really, really picky about which allegedly 'trained professional' worked on my rifles.

The only really significant difference between .223 and 5.56mm reamers is an increase in freebore of 0.020-0.030 inches, depending upon reamer manufacturer. Since one of the changes in the Wylde reamer is a slightly larger body dimension for the reamer, if your .223 chamber is cut a wee bit oversize, you might be OK, depending upon other factors-including the other specifications of the maker of that particular reamer.

Kinda boils down to RTFM, and do what it says.

 

[Mack]

I've got a lot of IVI SS109 which I suppose was rejected for pressure that will pop 3-4 crimped primers in every mag and this in two Colt uppers I tried it in, a 20" and a 16". You get one in the bolt recess and you have the mother of all jams. I figure that someday I will pull it down back the powder charge down a few tenths and reload but have been too lazy so far.

 

[Smitty357]

And while you do get more pressure from 5.56 its the 75gr 223 bullets that get better distance.

But to get accuracy for that distance with the heavy GR bullet, u also need a 1/7 twist barrel. Which we all know handles heavier GR bullets much better than the normal 1/11 1/9 barrels.

So in reality i guess it depends on what the OP is trying to achieve. But for what it sounds like IMO, he just wants something to plink around with. That 75gr bullet will cost him more than the average 45-55gr plinking bullets. So unless he has something that handles the 75gr bullets (well), then I see no reason for him to need them. IMO, your typical AR with a 1/9 twist barrel chambered in 5.56 or multi should work just fine.

 

[Cidian]

Just to clarify and make sure that I have this correct. My M&P15T is marked 5.56. The good ol manual that came with it states to use nothing but what is stamped on the barrel. The exception to that is I can use both the 5.56, and the .223 without any sort of problems, or worrying about any failures? I know its a noobish question, and yes I am still very new to this world of black rifles. Thank you for the clarification.

Shane