Went to a local range/ gunshop - shocked

scooter123

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
4,376
Location
Metro Detroit, Michigan
This shop advertizes that they are the largest Black Rifle dealer in SE Michigan and features a 50 yard indoor range.

The rifle rack on the back wall was darned near empty and there have to be a minimum of 100-125 slots on that rack. What was left was one Mossberg 22 LR caliber AR knockoff for 465.00(didn't know Mossberg even made one) and a few Mossberg 12 gage shot guns of various feature packages. All of there Remington 870's were gone. All of their lever action rifles were gone. All of there bolt action rifles were gone. All of their center fire Black Rifles were gone, including the Springfield Armory M1A National Match and the SCAR 17-S that had been gathering dust for over 2 years.

The handgun cases were also noticeably depleted. It was pretty obvious they had spread the handguns out a lot to try and mask the lack of inventory. The sole revolver left in the area normally devoted to S&W stainless models and J frames had one single 4 inch 617. That will probably sell before the weekend is over. There was only one Glock in the whole shop and that was a used 4th gen model 17, I don't expect that will be around long as it had just been traded in for one of the Mossberg 22 AR imitations.

I'm a real believer in the reports being posted about gun shops selling out. There isn't an "evil Black Rifle" to be found in my area that I know of and people seem to have moved on to any centerfire rifle they can find. Good news, if you can all it that, is that I didn't see any gouging. I talked to the owner and he didn't raise his prices on any of the stock that he's sold out of. Bad news is that he's received word from his distributors that prices will go up on any new orders. How much he doesn't know yet because the distributors are sold out, however he does know they'll be going up. Point is, when you blame your dealer for gouging you might want to consider who is actually doing the gouging. BTW, this dealer also sells reloading gear and on his last order for primers he was shorted by 80% on his order. Bullets he can get, brass he has an endless supply provided by shooters who don't pick up their brass, however primers have dried up and there is no telling how long that will last.

Final note of bad news is the Rifle Range is down at least until Wednesday. A power surge this morning took out a motor in the air handling system and just trying to turn the system on triggers a smoke detector, then the fire alarm, and then calls the fire department. A total bummer for me, got a new scope for Christmas and won't get to sight it in until next weekend.

PS; whatever those morons do in DC regarding Gun Control I hope they do it quickly. Because IMO the uncertainty is doing more harm than whatever useless ban they dream up will do. I fully expect that we will shortly see reports that all production of AR type rifles has been suspended because the manufacturers are afraid they'll be stuck with an inventory they can't sell. I also expect that we will see an unbelievable amount of hoarding of ammunition and if you have a rifle, finding ammo will approach pure blind luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkc
Register to hide this ad
Same thing in the shop I frequent. They usually have a dozen or more AR type rifles on display but the rack has been empty since the shooting in Conn. Ammo in 223/556 is sold out. The pistol cases are a little bare but that has been going on for quite a while. Range time is harder to get. I got there a half hour before opening and the parking lot was already full.
 
I went by a local LGS a couple of days ago and again yesterday looking for IMR 4350 (settled for 4895) and both days people were lined up waiting for range time. They have more or less specialized in tactical for years but I noticed the only thing they had was bolt guns along with one M&P15-22. Also stopped by my favorite LGS and have NEVER seen the parking lot that crowded. Their lot was full along with all but one space on the side of the building plus the parking lot of the office building next door was full. Main counter person was worn to a frazzle and I noticed they have an employee from their other store there at the counter. Another shop I went in a few days ago doesn't have much parking but they were full also and you couldn't get near the counter where the AR's, what they had left, were displayed.

CW
 
i have the mossberg knockoff...it retails for $300, for the cheapest version. usual prices before were about $280 and sale prices dipped as low as $230. the most expensive model, a flat top with a cheap red dot retails for $350. $465 for the mossberg would be price gouging.

by the way, it is just the 702 plinkster in a plastic shell
 
My LGS is closed for the holidays but re-opens Wednesday. I need some small pistol primers so will probably visit. It should be interesting to see what they don't have.
 
The main counter guy at Barrow Automotive in Butler told me they sold right at 300 AR style rifles the Friday, Saturday, and Monday before Christmas. I don't know what they have left. He said they didn't sell out of ammo simply because they didn't have time to keep it transported (across the street) from their warehouse.
 
One thing you may forget is that everyone is subject to supply and demand, even LE. I buy ammo for our city, and a supplier in Ark. sold 70 ARs in just a couple of days, all to LE depts. If they have the funds and are looking at purchasing rifles this year, they know they better get them now.
 
One reason dealers raise their price is S&D. Another is that they know an increase in pricing from the manufactures and distributors is coming for future product to restock inventory.
Imagine having restocked with these higher priced guns and the demand decreases, you may be stuck taking a loss on that inventory. Fuel stations operate in a similar fashion.
 
One thing you may forget is that everyone is subject to supply and demand, even LE. I buy ammo for our city, and a supplier in Ark. sold 70 ARs in just a couple of days, all to LE depts. If they have the funds and are looking at purchasing rifles this year, they know they better get them now.

Law Enforcement better not be panic buying right now. If they are, they should be investigated for some kind of nepotism / conflict of interest (see who owns the store, are they related to someone in the department). Also, if any ban were to happen, law enforcement would surely be exempt, so there is no reason for it. It's an utter waste of taxpayer money if they are spending 4x value for something like an AR right now.

LE agencies, being government, plan their purchases out, some of them may have left over money to spend at the end of their fiscal year (which may be Dec 31), but typically they would have put in their purchase requests prior to the week before the end of the fiscal year.

I used to work for the government and had a big role in purchasing for my department, our agency had policies in plact to prevent this, as in, you had to have everything received and invoiced prior to the last day of the fiscal year. All requisitions had to be submitted WELL in advance (usually 4 weeks) prior to prevent the items not being received in time.
 
I start back at my p/t job at a LGS/Range on Wed. Boss was kind enough to let me take off all through Christmas and New Years - and I was glad of it. I was burned-out dealing with all the craziness.

It'll be interesting seeing how it goes from here.
I'm hoping some old Smiths come out of closets to trade on whatever we have that is 'black'.
 
One reason dealers raise their price is S&D. Another is that they know an increase in pricing from the manufactures and distributors is coming for future product to restock inventory.
Imagine having restocked with these higher priced guns and the demand decreases, you may be stuck taking a loss on that inventory. Fuel stations operate in a similar fashion.

Thanks for making this much-needed point. When a merchant raises prices in response to a sudden increased demand for his product, he isn't price-gouging or taking advantage of anybody; he is setting a price that will be appropriate to replenish his stock.

The free market can be tricky. Like many of us, I am shocked at recent sudden price increases on guns, ammo, and magazines...but nobody has to pay those prices. Absent deception, force, or coercion, we are all engaging in voluntary transactions, especially in a circumstance like this.
 
Thanks for making this much-needed point. When a merchant raises prices in response to a sudden increased demand for his product, he isn't price-gouging or taking advantage of anybody; he is setting a price that will be appropriate to replenish his stock.

The free market can be tricky. Like many of us, I am shocked at recent sudden price increases on guns, ammo, and magazines...but nobody has to pay those prices. Absent deception, force, or coercion, we are all engaging in voluntary transactions, especially in a circumstance like this.

Ok, they bought the AR's they sold for $2500 for $500.
Their next batch of AR's they will sell for $2500 they will spend what, $800-$1000 at wholesale to get them? Ok, instead of a 400% profit, they get only a 150% profit, boo hoo!?!

Gun makers and wholesalers are not going to be jacking up their prices too extreme.

Let's us the S&W M&P 15 sport, it's still listed on S&W's webpage as ~$750, I spoke to several gun stores last week and they said their prices have not gone up, yet, but their availability is 0 and a lot of them dont have any idea when they can get new stock in. So it's not an issue of "the cost of their next AR's going up", it's availability and the uncertainty around that.

Besides, we all know, retailers pass their costs onto the consumer, so if the wholesaler jacks their price up to even $2000 each AR, and they are selling them for $2500, they are still making more than they used to make on them (15-20%). Gun stores wont sell at a loss.

I am curious as to what the price equilibrium is on these things
 
Spring and summer of 2012 there were so many black rifles/carbines in stock in local shops and shows it was unbelievable. 6 months later and Nellie bar the door. I've avoided shows lately because of the chaos. The gun shops here are sold out of AR's, AK's, and anything that could be "blackballed". The craziness of the pre '94 ban and Y2K baloney don't hold a candle to this. I wish my magic carpet was out of the shop so I could fly ahead about a year and see whats going on then.
 
Ok, they bought the AR's they sold for $2500 for $500.
Their next batch of AR's they will sell for $2500 they will spend what, $800-$1000 at wholesale to get them? Ok, instead of a 400% profit, they get only a 150% profit, boo hoo!?!

Gun makers and wholesalers are not going to be jacking up their prices too extreme.

Let's us the S&W M&P 15 sport, it's still listed on S&W's webpage as ~$750, I spoke to several gun stores last week and they said their prices have not gone up, yet, but their availability is 0 and a lot of them dont have any idea when they can get new stock in. So it's not an issue of "the cost of their next AR's going up", it's availability and the uncertainty around that.

Besides, we all know, retailers pass their costs onto the consumer, so if the wholesaler jacks their price up to even $2000 each AR, and they are selling them for $2500, they are still making more than they used to make on them (15-20%). Gun stores wont sell at a loss.

I am curious as to what the price equilibrium is on these things

You mention a scenario of supply and demand, yet you still do not seem to understand it.
 
Ok, they bought the AR's they sold for $2500 for $500.
Their next batch of AR's they will sell for $2500 they will spend what, $800-$1000 at wholesale to get them? Ok, instead of a 400% profit, they get only a 150% profit, boo hoo!?!

Gun makers and wholesalers are not going to be jacking up their prices too extreme.

Let's us the S&W M&P 15 sport, it's still listed on S&W's webpage as ~$750, I spoke to several gun stores last week and they said their prices have not gone up, yet, but their availability is 0 and a lot of them dont have any idea when they can get new stock in. So it's not an issue of "the cost of their next AR's going up", it's availability and the uncertainty around that.

Besides, we all know, retailers pass their costs onto the consumer, so if the wholesaler jacks their price up to even $2000 each AR, and they are selling them for $2500, they are still making more than they used to make on them (15-20%). Gun stores wont sell at a loss.

I am curious as to what the price equilibrium is on these things

I don't know what the wholesale price on firearms is, or how much dealers make on any given sale. I do know that my LGS is out of stock on just about everything now, and until they can get re-stocked, whenever that will be, they still have bills to pay, a payroll to meet, etc.

I have no problem with any price any dealer sets for an AR right now. The high prices we are seeing are entirely the result of people wanting those rifles, and being willing to pay those high prices for them.

No dealer is -- pardon me, but I gotta say it -- holding a gun to anybody's head to make them buy anything. :)
 
My favorite LGS has seen absolutely wid activity, and, yes, they have been out of anything in "basic black" since a few days after the tragedy in CT. Everything else is also flying out the doors. They are honorable, and did not jack up their prices. They don't know when, or if, they will be getting any more black rifles, and everything else has been hard to get for a while, and worse now. For instance, over a month ago, they ordered 30,000 primers, and received 1,000 - and they are on their distributor's "preferred" list. As to supply and demand, yes, supply is low, and demand has suddenly gone to unprecedented levels, so prices are rising in general. Of course, it can work the other way - if we (the demand side) refuse to buy at unreasonable prices, the prices will go down. I exercised that option a week or so ago - I visited a relatively new gun shop in a town about 50 miles from here, and they had several 30-round Pmags in stock. I was pretty sure the price would be a bit higher than normal, but when they quoted me $29.99 each, I put them right back on the rack - the counter man said he understood. I'm sure they sold them anyway, but if more of us excercized restraint, the prices would settle back down. Frankly, I'm not too concerned about having a huge supply of mags, as my AR is a varminter model, and, having used the M-16 in combat, as well as the M-14, an AR-15, or anything in .223, would not be anywhere on my short list of go-to guns in case of extreme civil unrest, I want something with a real punch, not a varmint round.
 
Law Enforcement better not be panic buying right now. If they are, they should be investigated for some kind of nepotism / conflict of interest (see who owns the store, are they related to someone in the department). Also, if any ban were to happen, law enforcement would surely be exempt, so there is no reason for it. It's an utter waste of taxpayer money if they are spending 4x value for something like an AR right now.

LE agencies, being government, plan their purchases out, some of them may have left over money to spend at the end of their fiscal year (which may be Dec 31), but typically they would have put in their purchase requests prior to the week before the end of the fiscal year.

I used to work for the government and had a big role in purchasing for my department, our agency had policies in plact to prevent this, as in, you had to have everything received and invoiced prior to the last day of the fiscal year. All requisitions had to be submitted WELL in advance (usually 4 weeks) prior to prevent the items not being received in time.


it's very obvious...you have no idea how this works :cool:
 
Ok, they bought the AR's they sold for $2500 for $500.

I'm happy for them. I own a business and my job is to sell my services to clients for the utmost money they will pay for them. Their job is to get me to sell those services for the least amount I will accept. It's a marvelous thing. Right now I have one client who pays 110% more than another client for whom I provide the exact same service. Both clients are happy.

Ok, they bought the AR's they sold for $2500 for $500. Their next batch of AR's they will sell for $2500 they will spend what, $800-$1000 at wholesale to get them? Ok, instead of a 400% profit, they get only a 150% profit, boo hoo!?!

You mean, they have to lay out $1000 per rifle of their own money and take the chance that the rifles won't sell at the higher price? This is the laughable part of any "gouging" accusation: it is always proffered by people whose risk is precisely zero, about people whose risk might be their entire livelihood.

Gun makers and wholesalers are not going to be jacking up their prices too extreme.

Please define "extreme". It is my experience that this term is employed only to give the utterer a pass from the detailed thought required to defened their accusation that the "extremist" is guilty of some wrongdoing. I think it is employed for that purpose here.

Besides, we all know, retailers pass their costs onto the consumer, so if the wholesaler jacks their price up to even $2000 each AR, and they are selling them for $2500, they are still making more than they used to make on them (15-20%). Gun stores wont sell at a loss.

Yes they will, if their need to have liquidity exceeds the future profit they believe they may have by holding the inventory. This is basic business.

I am curious as to what the price equilibrium is on these things

"Price equilibrium" is a nonsensical concept. Price has a singular function: a signal between buyer and seller about the amount of indirect exchange that will clear the market. Prices are set by buyers and sellers, by supply and demand. Prices can be measured over time but there is no prediction of what a price "should be" or, as you say, its "equilibrium". In fact, one of the hallmarks of an increasingly productive economy is that prices perpetually decrease for a given good as people figure out how to produce it and deliver it more efficiently. Funny, but nobody really complains when prices go down. (Well, the Keynesian fools who are convinced that depressions are caused by deflation may complain, but they are Keynesian fools who believe that money has no intrinsic value and who deny that consumption is enabled only by production. But I digress...)

The day after Christmas I was in a gun shop in a small town in NE Ohio. They had just received a shipment of Sig Sauer M400's. They wanted $1495 each. A quick check on my cell phone showed that this price was at least 30% over MSRP. I was not offended that they asked a premium nor can I understand why anybody else would be offended. It is THEIR gun, purchased with THEIR money. If *I* want to purchase *their* property than I am free to agree to their price. I nearly did...
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Back
Top