Shield out of battery - time to revisit this issue

You could bump the slide in about 10,000 different ways. I have listed many before, but yes, on a door, pushing the gun while a teenaged attacker is on top of you smashing your head in the sidewalk ( remember that one? :p ) , falling while running away and landing on your hands which are holding the gun, hitting your seat belt while in a car, a second bystander (maybe the perps girlfriend) grabbing at your hand while you bring your gun up, deflecting something thrown at you while the perp charges.... I could go on forever, but that's not the point.

The point is IF the slide is bumped the gun ceases to function.

This is NOT the case on my 3913, so I don't have to worry about it. It's also not happening on ANY of my carry handguns.

In researching this, I have found several people who have sent their guns back to S&W and had them fixed, and they no longer stay out of battery.

This isn't much different than a safety that sometimes clicks on all by itself, or is easily bumped on when you think it is off. I cannot understand why someone would defend a gun that isn't 100% reliable. Not 99.9%.... 100%.

I have no time to defend a gun that doesn't function 100% of the time. If you believe a gun that can easily be made inoperative is a fabulous gun to bet your life on then I wish you the best of luck. I have many other perfectly functioning handguns that love to ride in my holster.
 
You could bump the slide in about 10,000 different ways. I have listed many before, but yes, on a door, pushing the gun while a teenaged attacker is on top of you smashing your head in the sidewalk ( remember that one? :p ) , falling while running away and landing on your hands which are holding the gun, hitting your seat belt while in a car, a second bystander (maybe the perps girlfriend) grabbing at your hand while you bring your gun up, deflecting something thrown at you while the perp charges.... I could go on forever, but that's not the point.

The point is IF the slide is bumped the gun ceases to function.

This is NOT the case on my 3913, so I don't have to worry about it. It's also not happening on ANY of my carry handguns.

In researching this, I have found several people who have sent their guns back to S&W and had them fixed, and they no longer stay out of battery.

This isn't much different than a safety that sometimes clicks on all by itself, or is easily bumped on when you think it is off. I cannot understand why someone would defend a gun that isn't 100% reliable. Not 99.9%.... 100%.

I have no time to defend a gun that doesn't function 100% of the time. If you believe a gun that can easily be made inoperative is a fabulous gun to bet your life on then I wish you the best of luck. I have many other perfectly functioning handguns that love to ride in my holster.

No weapon is 100% reliable, if you can show me one i'd be happy to purchase a few of them. No matter what weapon u look at on the market, somewhere there is always a flaw. It may be the "slightest" flaw that people can make seem like its the "biggest" flaw. But rest assure there is always a flaw. If one hates a weapon enough, he/she will find plenty of time to point out those flaws.

I feel as though we are beating a dead horse with this subject. As we now know that not "all " shields have this problem. It appears to be much like the mag drop issue than anything.

I can point out a few XDS that also have this problem. And once again, not ALL of them have the problem. But I have tested a few that do in fact have the problem. I have also tested a few Gen4 glock19's that have this problem. I havent had a chance to test any other G model, because I dont have access to any........I'm just saying it happens is several semi-auto pistols. It's not something thats a "new" problem.
 
No weapon is 100% reliable, if you can show me one i'd be happy to purchase a few of them.

I have many guns that are 100% reliable, or at least they have never had a problem firing unless I have caused the problem.

What this thread is looking for is the answer to fixing the problem, not to hear people claim the problem doesn't exist. If you don't mind your Shield not going into battery I have no beef with that. I prefer to find a remedy or sell the gun and move on. It's a cheap gun! I'm not losing any sleep over it if it goes down the road. ;)

I'm going to dig out my Dremel and put the polishing buffer on it and get some Flitz or rubbing compound on that thing and start polishing the slide bump and the trigger bar bump. I'd really like to see if I can conquer this problem!
 
Could it be dirt/grit that is possibly over looked while cleaning. I know some people may over look some of the smallest things. But also the smallest things can sometimes cause the biggest problems.

Has anyone with this problem tried to thoroughly clean their weapon and then see if the problem persists? There must be a reason why some weapons have this problem and others dont. The only differences that are foreseeable would be different owners and different manufacture dates.
 
Back in the days when I commonly did press-checks, I used & came across any number of assorted pistols that had the slides & barrels hang up during the manipulation. Some moved smoothly forward back into battery, and some required some degree or another of nudge before they'd do so.

Just because some makes/models may be able to overcome the "position of mechanical disadvantage" induced in an out-of-battery condition, by virtue of the recoil spring's force, and return to being in-battery, that doesn't mean that all pistols may do so ... or that a particular pistol which does so on one day, will do so again on another day. Things happen (or don't).

I remember one day when I was shooting at an outdoor range for a secured facility located in the mountains, after days of rain. I'd been sent there as a firearms instructor a couple of times. At one point during some drills some sandy/gritty mud splashed up & back upon the barrel of my pistol during cycling ... and it apparently was just enough to keep the slide from moving fully forward as the barrel cammed up & forward. :eek:

Took a moment to recognize and resolve. Fortunately, during the drill my partner and I had been advancing forward into the wash of light of our vehicle, and I was able to catch a flash image of the MOUND of mud (okay, it only looked that way :D ) caked on the top/front of the barrel, in front of the slide's front sight post.

Nowadays, I worry about the chance of one of my pistols being shoved/jammed by an attacker, and the slide/barrel being stuck slightly out-of-battery, about as much as I worry about an attacker forcefully seizing the cylinder of one of my revolvers and stopping it from rotating so the gun fires.

I've had more ammo spec QC issues arise over the years which kept one or another of my pistols from going forward into full battery. That tends to stay niggling at the back of my mind. ;)
 
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I PM'd Lost lake with the same issue. After second guessing my cleaning, I stripped it down and thoroughly recleaned and lubed my Shield. Same thing. I don't believe round count has anything to do with this, or grit for that matter. I am on board with the question as to why some and not all.
 
I PM'd Lost lake with the same issue. After second guessing my cleaning, I stripped it down and thoroughly recleaned and lubed my Shield. Same thing. I don't believe round count has anything to do with this, or grit for that matter. I am on board with the question as to why some and not all.

Probably for the same reason(s) some Sig's, 1911's, 3rd gen S&W's, etc will easily slip back forward into battery, and some won't.

These guns aren't hand-fitted, lovingly and carefully crafted by Bavarian elves. (I'm half German) They're service-type pistols.

Each pistol contains components and assemblies which are made within a normal tolerance range. Think tolerance stack.

Then include ammunition dimensions and tolerance spec ranges.

Then think about how each individual person may have slight (or not-so-slight) variations in how they hold & exert pressure with any particular pistol when performing this "manipulation", inducing the condition of mechanical disadvantage in the slide & barrel movement (which does NOT occur during normal operation).

Then think about how widely varied people seem inclined to apply lubrication. (Standing around a cleaning station during a qual session can be a real eye opener when it comes to seeing what people think are "proper" or "good" cleaning & lubrication practices. :eek: )

Is it any wonder that maybe 5, 10, 25, 50 or 100 different people, using that many different examples of assembled pistols & mags, and who knows what type of ammo (with its inherent variability within a given set of expected tolerances among production lots), might experience?

Kind of like asking why one pistol may exhibit a slight (or not-so-slight) "hitch" in manually manipulating the slide to the rear, but another one might not. These things generally don't run on gears, on "lubed glass" or "greased ball bearings", despite what some "enthusiasts" (or perfectionists) might like to think. :)

Granted, as an armorer I'd normally inspect my new pistol to make sure nothing appears damaged or defective, and then perform normal bench checks, after which I'd confirm normal functioning with live-fire. However, I wouldn't waste time sitting around trying to induce some weird stoppage by slowly manipulating the pistol in a manner other than that in which it was intended to be operated. (And I'd be using properly sized Dummy rounds, not live ammo, for bench checks!)

Just my thoughts.

I've handled and used all manner of smallish pistols that didn't like being pulled barely out-of-battery, and had to be coaxed or eased back into battery. Unless there was an actual manufacturing problem with a particular gun, I didn't blame it on the gun ... but my manipulation.
 
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A Parable

...
What this thread is looking for is the answer to fixing the problem, not to hear people claim the problem doesn't exist.
.... I'd really like to see if I can conquer this problem!

The "problem" is not unlike the "problem" encountered whenever the driver's door on one of my cars easily closes completely whilst the other tends to "hang-up" on the first latch. I used the exact same force to attempt the maneuver on both cars. Why will one close completely and the other not??? I certainly cannot drive the car without the door completely closed now can I? A potentially deadly situation, n'est-ce pas? The "problem" absolutely exists. I can make one car do this but the other one, I cannot.

The solution was to gauge the force necessary to completely close the door reliably and repeatedly without slamming it. And to recognize and accept the fact that one of my cars had this tendency.

There, problem solved.:cool:
 
Fastbolt:

Any ideas where a guy should start looking for clearance issues? It's hard to believe the little trigger bar is causing the problem, maybe it's slightly adding some parasitic drag, but is there a bigger area of drag I can look to minimize?

Is it possible the extractor / bolt face clearance is too tight? Where would I find a spec for these types of things?
 
Fastbolt:

Any ideas where a guy should start looking for clearance issues? It's hard to believe the little trigger bar is causing the problem, maybe it's slightly adding some parasitic drag, but is there a bigger area of drag I can look to minimize?

Is it possible the extractor / bolt face clearance is too tight? Where would I find a spec for these types of things?


The smaller you start making pistols, the more the shorter recoil springs and mechanical leverage conditions during "slow manually-induced cycling" can change. When it's done significantly more slowly than how the gun was intended to be cycled (for either normally loading the chamber or actual live-fire operation), it may manifest differently than in full-size pistols of similar design. Not something that's surprising.

I've seen a well-used, consistently reliably functioning little .380 pistol (2.75" barrel) repeatedly exhibit the slide & barrel being unable to return to battery just by spring tension when the slide & barrel have been manually retracted slightly out-of-battery.

On the other hand, sometimes the largest pistols may develop their own unexpected quirks when manual operation of the pistol occurs.

For example, a lot of folks are familiar with Glock's field-check of the recoil spring assembly strength. This bench/field check is fine for the 9/.40 & .357 Glock guns, but armorers have been told that it isn't a reliable indicator of RSA (Recoil Spring Assembly) strength for the .45/10 guns.

Why? Because the heavier slide mass of the .45/10's, relative to their proper recoil spring rates, is enough to hold the slides & barrels out-of-battery if manipulated in this manner. And that's with an empty chamber/no magazine, and the pistol pointed slightly upward at an approx 45 degree angle. I've seen it occur with a new G21SF, using a couple of new RSA's.

So, even though a sufficiently tensioned recoil spring (even brand new) often won't have the strength to return an out-of-battery .45/10 slide & barrel back to into battery during a manually performed bench/field check, it's still fine for normal operation during live-fire. (presuming any other indications of a weakening RSA aren't present, of course.)

As long as the little pistol (Shield 9) is properly operating when used as described in the owner safety manual, and how the engineers designed it to operate & function, I'd not be losing sleep over how it "functions" when trying to manually induce problems in a manner other than how it was actually intended to operate & function.

If you're concerned about it, call S&W and arrange for a shipping label so the particular pistol can be checked and examined for proper tolerances, specs and functioning under warranty ... but don't be surprised if the gun passes the inspection & production tests just fine.

As far as gauging the guns? Sure, it's always possible for tolerance to be on the tight end of things in some particular gun, or even tighter than is normal.

While I haven't been through the Shield class yet (last I heard, it was awaiting approval by legal), I've been through the regular M&P pistol class twice.

S&W has been telling armorers for the regular M&P classes that extractor gauges aren't needed, due to the improved tolerances. Yes, they're still used by armorers for the 3rd gen pistols, and the standard SW1911's have their own extractor bar gauge (I don't know about the Enhanced models, yet). I have armorer extractor gauges for all calibers of the 3rd gen guns, as well as the SW1911. Only the original .40/.357 bar gauge for the M&P's, though.

They were originally recommending M&P armorers buy the .40 extractor bar gauges for the first classes, but nowadays they're saying the parts are being produced within such precise tolerances that gauges aren't needed by armorers. I bought one of the early .40 bar gauges, but I've been repeatedly told they still aren't making "armorer" extractor gauge tools for M&P's in the 9 & .45 calibers, nor have any plans to do so. BTW, they've also made a revision of the M&P extractor within the last year or two, refining it. I'd imagine the new Shield benefits from any recent extractor revisions and improvements. ;)

If you're wondering about extractor clearance issues, the factory can check it (as I was told they use production gauges), as well as any spec/tolerance issues in the rest of the gun (including the trigger bar, safety block plunger, locking block, etc). Let them check it under warranty if you're concerned about (or just suspect) an actual problem. They're good about customer warranty.

Another issue where tolerances can vary is with the ammunition, though. I remember several years ago when some LE agencies reported some feeding issues with the SW9940's. While a revision of the magazine and follower design eventually resulted (related to an occasional reported early-slide lock issue), it was also discovered by S&W that some of the ammunition being used (contract ammo) exhibited some unexpected case rim tolerance variances which I was told might have contributed to some feeding issues.

This was discovered after S&W engineers couldn't get some of the affected SW9940's to exhibit similar described feeding issues with an assortment of common JHP ammo used at the factory ... but once they requested an agency send them the specific ammo they were using, the factory was able to get the "problems" to occur with that ammo.

I was told the Walther-provided 99 extractors were revised, and subsequent extractors I received appeared to have slightly beveled angles on the bottom of the hook, and were more polished.

I don't known what else to say, other than rather than chasing your tail and fiddling with the gun, let the company inspect it for any tolerance/manufacturing issues ... but consider that it may be possible that your expectations may not be considered realistic by the factory. Dunno.

I've only had the time and opportunity to handle and use one Shield 9 for an afternoon. It ran fine. I'm considering ordering one (as if I don't already have a surfeit of small 9's). Some of the other guys who have bought them have experienced similarly normal & reliable operation, as well.

I like the Kirk/Spock thing, BTW. :)
 
Thank you Fastbolt, now maybe some of these guys will stop beating the dead horse.

It's just not worth losing sleep over guys.
 
Maybe. Maybe not.

I usually try to avoid this sort of thread, but I can understand many owners reading things and becoming worried about what they read, so sometimes I add my couple of cents.

I've had ample opportunity to field these same sort of questions from folks coming through training classes and qual sessions I've worked over the years. Even from lesser experienced firearms instructors and armorers. ;)

Every once in a while someone comes along with a question that really concerns them, and they may unintentionally confuse their sincere concern with the subject actually having relevance. Hey, BTDT myself as a younger owner, shooter, instructor, etc. That's how we learn, right?

It's when someone starts to obsess on something they perceive to be a "problem" which is either not an actual problem, in and of itself, or it's a symptom of something else that's happening, that it can become difficult to assuage their concern. If someone picks up a perceived problem and continues to run with it, even though it's not something that's really a problem, there may not be any way to satisfy them.

I've seen guys get rid of guns that bugged them for some perceived issue, even after other shooters, instructors, armorers or factory reps told them that what they were obsessing about wasn't actually a problem ... or was something being caused by themselves, and not the gun (that's a hard one to get them to swallow).

Sure, sometimes an actual gun problem comes along. It's a machine, right?

But day in & day out, more than 90-95% of the "gun problems" reported by owners & shooters are actually being caused in some manner or other by the owner/shooter. It's a "shooter-induced" problem. (I include maintenance practices among shooter-induced problems most of the time, as it can be downright mind-boggling to see some of the cleaning & lubrication practices used by some people. :eek: )

The rest of the time? Ammo problems, followed to a smaller degree by the occasional gun problem (defect, damage, breakage, wear, etc).

The gun companies can only exert reasonable control and QC over the guns when they're produced and assembled. Once the guns leave the factories, the companies have no control over the shooter factors (skills, grip techniques, maintenance practices, etc); the ammo used or the environmental conditions in which the guns are actually used.
 
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Maybe. Maybe not.

.

Fastbolt,

upon further inspection i found that OOB only happens with load in a chamber, regardeles if magazine is present or ejected. If no hot load, even with full magazine - the slide goes all way back (front) to it's place.
OOB does not depends on manufacturer of ammo - I tested using Federal white box, PPU target, Aguila target, Winchester 147gr target flat nose, Winchester Ranger T-series HJP, Federal HST - any type of ammo causing OOB condition.

Ejector? Barrel tilting?

Waiting for comments if something can be done
 
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Does the pistol feed all that ammunition normally and reliably operate as designed during proper initial loading of the chamber and then during live-fire?

What do you think requires "fixing"?

Keep the extractor hook clean and dry, removing any fouling build up. Don't use excessive amounts of solvent (CLP's, etc) around the extractor where it could migrate under the extractor and accumulate at either end (where it could eventually create an issue with the extractor's freedom of movement to pivot to the designed degree).

If you suspect a problem exists (burred or out-of-spec extractor, too heavily tensioned extractor spring, burred extractor spring hole, damaged RSA, out-of-spec barrel or locking block, etc), let the company inspect it and make any corrections under their warranty.

Remember that the spring-tensioned forward motion of the slide & barrel back into battery is intended to happen at a certain rate (speed), like when the slide is released to run fully forward to pick up, feed & chamber a round ... locking into full battery.

Press checks aren't the same thing.

Have you ever heard the opinion that smaller, shorter barreled pistols are sometimes felt to be "more accurate" in the hands of some folks, and heard the offered explanation that it's because they lock up faster & tighter? Less mechanical movement during the unlocking/locking is sometimes thought to return them to battery more consistently? That sort of thing?

Maybe so. At any rate, that perceived "advantage" may not come free. Feeding timing may be more sensitive, reduced slide runs (travel) and different recoil spring rates (especially when dual or nested springs are involved) start to become less tolerant of shooter & ammunition induced influences ... and being asked to operate outside the normal range of functioning.

Folks, please bear in mind that I'm NOT an engineer, factory repair tech, gunsmith or any sort of "expert". I'm just a factory trained LE armorer. Just my thoughts. Only worth what you paid for them. ;)

If a particular gun is in good condition, with no visible defects or damage, and it's operating as designed, especially when being used with good quality ammunition, I don't start trying to find "something" that needs "fixing".

This sort of reminds me of those revolver aficionados who find fault with a revolver's "timing" (carry up), doing weird "checks" they read about somewhere, creating "drag" against the cylinder by touching it (finger pressure) while the revolver hand is trying to carry up the cylinder. That's not how it's done (or at least taught by S&W). There seems to be no shortage of folks who try to check the carry up in DA & SA improperly, though, and then try to "fix the problem", only to actually create a problem. The old saying of "fix it till it's broke" comes to mind ...

If an attacker is close enough to me to become a threat by being able to potentially push a pistol slide/barrel out-of-battery, there are more things I'm worrying about than the slide & barrel being able to return to battery by spring rate alone ... but that's just me.

Then again, I'm not overly distressed to realize that one of my J-frames might be rendered momentarily inoperable by someone tightly grasping the cylinder, over-powering my ability to function the trigger by pulling it, either ...

Dunno what else to say, folks.
 
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Fastbolt, Let me state that i did not start this thread and was not even aware of OOB before i read it. Also let me emphasize that i did not use word "fix". i asked if anything can be (further) done without sending (obviously) large number of guns back to S&W? it's not the same, at least IMHO.
And please don't get defensive, i marked several of you posts that i like them - i share pretty much the same position as you. One of them is, that most likely, the gun will be retuned back to me (and others) with statement that it meet S&W standard.

But still I have several points (some of them are facts) to take into consideration:

1. I bought my Shield ONLY BECAUSE it's part of M&P line and should operate reliably as other models of M&P line.
2. I'm aware that there is no perfect 9mm (.40) subcompact on the market. S&W came as close to perfect with its Shield model as possible. (the following guns are not too far behind: Nano, PM9, P290SR)
3. I do not care that M&P 22 has currently some problems with the slide not returning back. As well as I not care that and some other M&P models had problems after release. I trust in S&W (obviously with my life) that if any problem exists – it will be fixed.
4. Shield is quite new model – it is possible it's already as good as it gets or it will be tweaked by S&W in the future (stronger RSA or different extractor/spring)
5. Some people experience OOB and some ARE NOT or they DO NOT AWARE of this problem (or they did not check for OOB with load in the chamber).
6. my Ruger LCP (which is much smaller than Shield, size-wise and barrel length and RSA) returns back to barrel if press checked when loaded. My 3.8" XDm compact does not have OOB problem either. But I DO NOT carry everyday LCP or XDm - I do carry Shield. And i need at least to know/BE AWARE OF ITS LIMITATION.
In this thread too much afford made to convinced people that press check or any other manually introduced OOB situation it is an operator's fault. AND I DO AGREE WITH THAT!!! I'm not arguing and I do not even care about press check (even though i perform it from time to time) - because i manually return the slide forward - NO BIG DEAL for me!!!

But i do concern that in close quarters situation, like in a car - Shield might be a wrong self-defense tool to use – a slight bump on a barrel at the steering wheel, center compartment, seat belt, seat itself etc... makes the gun not functional. And keyword here is "SLIGHT". Any bump/movement of the slide over 1/4" will actually make the spring to overcame the resistance and return the slide forward if the trigger is pulled. Pull the trigger again – it will fire.
My point here is if this is the whole line of Shields have this problem with explicitly introduced OOB situation that it requires operator's involvement – we need to be aware about it and the final choice is after the consumer - to buy Shield it or not to buy.
On other hand if only some small percentage of sold guns have this problem – let's figure it out – what serial numbers, did S&W make any modification recently (which we might never will know) and let's get it fixed/replaced
I hope you don't find this post in anyway disrespectful toward you or your opinion.

Thank you.
 
Here is a question, just for giggles? How many of you pressure check your weapon when an intruder is posing a threat? And how many of you can replicate this OOB problem (without a pressure check) in the case of self defense?

Dropping the weapon from a 2 story building and banging it on a door frame doesnt count for an excuse.

Once again, lets not beat the dead horse any longer. Its dead, so its time to move on to something thats makes more sense like "Why are the evil weapons always the black weapons".
 
Fastbolt, Let me state that i did not start this thread ...

Thank you.

Hey, hi. ;)

I haven't kept track of who started this thread, or any other. I haven't even read all of this thread. Just skimmed some of the postings.

Please don't mistake anything I've written thus far as inferring that I'm in any way "defensive". Not the case. I certainly didn't take anything you wrote as disrespectful. Not in the least.

That's one of the problems with just using the written word for "conversations". More than 95% of ALL human communication occurs via body language and other visual cues, so relying on what's written may confer subject content, but it may not accurately convey feelings, moods, attitude, etc. Sorry if you thought I was bothered by anything you'd written.

Anyway ... to your numbered points ...

1. Yes, it should. :)

2. ALL guns have their Achilles Heel, in some manner or another. (They're just machines)

3. The M&P 22 is a collaborative effort, with Walther, and I seem to remember how well the P22 initially worked. I'm not familiar with the M&P 22 (preferring Ruger .22's), but give it time.

4. S&W engineers hardly ever sit back and rest on their laurels for their guns. They were still making revisions, refinements and manufacturing changes in their discontinued (for commercial sales) TSW model line, as recently as within the last couple of years. And that's a model line that's really only being made for existing LE agency users of earlier 3rd gen guns.

5. Not unexpected or surprising.

6. I have TWO LCP's out in my safe, and neither one will return-to-battery if the slides/barrels are manually retracted so they're out-of-battery, with both requiring manual assistance to go back into battery. Both work quite well during live-fire, with different loads, though. I recently tested one of them with 4 different loads (Speer GDHP, Winchester T-Series & FMJ, Remington Golden Sabre), and it ran great with all of them.

I understand how sudden & highly stressful, tumultuous life-threatening events might well introduce the chance for things to happen to the tools & safety equipment we may choose to use.

My thoughts? TANSTAAFL. ;)

The use of a smallish pistol or revolver in a dynamic, rapidly evolving, chaotic, deadly force situation is probably going to sometimes introduce the chance for circumstances to impede the desired use or operation of the handgun (or rifle or shotgun). That's what initial & recurrent training and ingrained proper (hopefully) responses to such anticipated situations is for, to help us more effectively function under duress and adverse physical (environment) conditions. Did I mention hopefully? ;)

Personally, having seen what people (LE and non-LE alike) have done under moderately demanding qual courses of fire when a simple feeding stoppage or other malfunction occurs, and it requires their involvement to correct the situation, I can think of other things I'd worry about happening before I'd worry about "OOB" situations. (Failures-to-extract/eject & double feeds from ammo issues; pushing the mag catch and unintentionally dropping magazines; improper/rushed grip techniques interfering with slide cycling; holding the gun too close to loose garments and having the garments get caught in the slide; holding it too close to the shooter's body and having the slide jammed short of proper cycling; not letting the trigger reset for another intentional shot; not realizing when the slide is locked back (for whatever reason), etc).

It simply wouldn't occur to me to be needlessly wary of whether a loaded/chambered pistol might experience a failure to return to battery, under its own spring tension, after being hit or struck on the end of the muzzle or slide so that it was pushed out-of-battery. (I'd be more worried that whatever happened to cause the out-of-battery condition might have also caused a bore obstruction, FWIW, since that's NOT a good thing to have happen.) If it wouldn't smoothly move back & forward during bench checks after cleaning and inspecting a reassembled EMPTY pistol, then yes, that would get my attention. Then I'd be concerned and not return to using it until whatever was happening was identified and resolved.

We could trip and break our necks, too. :eek:

Kidding aside, I'll keep an ear out for anything related to the Shield. I'd not mind buying one, myself. I'm hoping to get to an armorer class for it as soon I hear it's approved and available, even if it's just incorporated as a section in the M&P class, like how the Sigma was once done (last day of 3rd gen class, before it became its own class).

Thanks for the cordial comments. :D
 
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Thanks Fastbolt and Supplier, I think we have some good dialog going here.

To repeat, I am not concerned with press checking, or any intentional movement of the slide to create an OOB event. What I am concerned with is an accidental bump that may occur when a gun is pressed against someone, or bumped against something, or accidentally dropped during a scuffle, anything like that, and a gun that will not return to a ready-to-fire condition.

I won't carry a gun like that, and I'd like to figure out why my Shield does it yet I have so many other guns that don't. None of my other M&P's ever did it even when they were brand new and unfired. What is special about the Shield that makes it hang OOB when the 9c doesn't?
 
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