New rifle...Failure to Fire

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Not too happy with initial outing. For the first 45 minutes, I could NOT get the firing pin to put even a scratch on the bullet. Disassembled several times and appeared the firing pin moved OK when pushing in with the charging handle (all I had handy). Hammer worked fine. Finally dry fired a dozen times and then it started working fine. I had taking gun apart and cleaned up all shipping grease and lightly oiled appropriate parts. I do not know what the problem was, but after dry firing episode, the firing pin hit good and went through 150 rounds. Found that the SW 25 mag tended to not put bullets completely on deck and had several fail to feed. Promag magazine worked fine. I carefully loaded the mag and made sure all bullets had the rim against the mag...somehow they were slipping away somehow and would not present the rim for the charging mechanism. Had a blast and hoping this was and is just breakin. Comments solicited.

 

[Taylor339]

I suspect the problems you had with the S&W magazine was the rounds were not properly "staggered". Not sure about the FTF issues.

 

[Majorlk]

The fact that some dry firing seemed to clear up the problem, indicates that the firing pin channel was clogged with either excess lube or other debris. There should be no wet lube in the firing pin channel. At most a little dry graphite can be used, but even that is unnecessary. Firing pin channels should be blown out with compressed air, preferably from a compressor, not a can.

FWIW, the only parts that need lubing are the bolt carrier rails. A single drop of CLP on each rail, top and bottom, is more than sufficient. The only other parts possibly needing lube are the hammer and trigger pins and then just the smallest drop possible.

The mag problem, as someone else mentioned, is almost certainly related to improper loading.

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Well, the rounds were staggered correctly when I loaded them, but what I am really concerned about is the FTFire. I took the pin out and soaked everything down with CLP and put back together together tonight after blowing everything dry. What I noticed is that the firing pin is no long enough to protrude and crease a bullet rim, unless it gets there by inertia. In other words, if I depressed the hammer end of the firing pin flush with the bolt...the other end does not protrude. Is this normal or is my pin too short?

 

[Majorlk]

Well, the rounds were staggered correctly when I loaded them, but what I am really concerned about is the FTFire. I took the pin out and soaked everything down with CLP and put back together together tonight after blowing everything dry. What I noticed is that the firing pin is no long enough to protrude and crease a bullet rim, unless it gets there by inertia. In other words, if I depressed the hammer end of the firing pin flush with the bolt...the other end does not protrude. Is this normal or is my pin too short?

You lost me. I thought you said after the dry firing everything worked.

 

[Shooterjgs]

Yea you lost me to but someone else a while back had the same problem... I think they had S&W send them another fireing pin or they sent the rifle in... can't really remember how it went but they got it fixed.

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Yea you lost me to but someone else a while back had the same problem... I think they had S&W send them another fireing pin or they sent the rifle in... can't really remember how it went but they got it fixed.

After the dry firing, everything worked, but when I got home I decided to investigate while making sure the firing pin channel was clean. That is when I noticed the length of the firing pin and wondered if it was too short...Sorry I confused everyone. So does anyone have info about whether the firing pin should protrude when the hammer end of the pin is flush with the bolt?

 

[Majorlk]

After the dry firing, everything worked, but when I got home I decided to investigate while making sure the firing pin channel was clean. That is when I noticed the length of the firing pin and wondered if it was too short...Sorry I confused everyone. So does anyone have info about whether the firing pin should protrude when the hammer end of the pin is flush with the bolt?

Yes it should but not by very much. As long as the end of the pin is hitting the rim with sufficient force to reliability fire the cartridge, that's all that really matters. If the failure to fire continues, I would contact S&W about a repair. Hopefully, this won't be necessary.

I do understand your frustration with the problem.

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Not content to wait for answers...I kept looking...

Apparently, my rifle is as designed, which is a newer design to reduce OOB ignition and they now come with an inertial firing pin. I suppose I had a rough edge somewhere in the pin and,or bolt and it is now broken in. I think also that my mag feed problems are a rough area in the mag, that is keeping the rim from sliding up with the rest of the bullet. My bullets were properly staggered...and it only seemed to happen on the factory mag. My 32 round mags worked fine.

Here is an old thread about this firing pin length and action that worked it over until it finally was properly killed off.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/167384-15-22-firing-pin-protrusion.html

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Yes it should but not by very much. As long as the end of the pin is hitting the rim with sufficient force to reliability fire the cartridge, that's all that really matters. If the failure to fire continues, I would contact S&W about a repair. Hopefully, this won't be necessary.

I do understand your frustration with the problem.

By the way...my pin does NOT protrude enough to measure when the pin is flush with the rear of the bolt. But after it started to work right, I was getting good sharp indentations in the bullets...until then (before dry firing it out of frustration) I was getting NO contact by the FP with the bullet.

 

[Majorlk]

Yes, it is an inertia firing pin.

 

[Grover06]

Well, the rounds were staggered correctly when I loaded them, but what I am really concerned about is the FTFire. I took the pin out and soaked everything down with CLP and put back together together tonight after blowing everything dry. What I noticed is that the firing pin is no long enough to protrude and crease a bullet rim, unless it gets there by inertia. In other words, if I depressed the hammer end of the firing pin flush with the bolt...the other end does not protrude. Is this normal or is my pin too short?

after my original firing pin broke. i was sent a new firing pin, the second firing pin is shorter then the first, and when it is depressed (hammer is flush with the rear of the bolt) my firing pin does not protrude at all from the bolt face.
what color is your firing pin? my first was grey and my second is black, i thought they might have a made a minor change in the design but when i asked the S&W costumer service rep he said he was "unaware of any such change"

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

after my original firing pin broke. i was sent a new firing pin, the second firing pin is shorter then the first, and when it is depressed (hammer is flush with the rear of the bolt) my firing pin does not protrude at all from the bolt face.
what color is your firing pin? my first was grey and my second is black, i thought they might have a made a minor change in the design but when i asked the S&W costumer service rep he said he was "unaware of any such change"

It's black. Its amazing you few customer service folks know about their products. But I have seen several comments from SW folks that they changed the firing pin to be shorter/inertial.

 

[Knee_Booter]

I took mine to a LGS a half mile from my home in regards to ftf issues. They called back on Friday and said the firing pin was broken and they had no clue how it was getting any shots off. It will be ready with a new pin tomorrow and I hope it resolves my past issues.

Once I have a written invoice from my LGS with a detailed list of what was wrong I do plan on contacting S&W. The gun has only been shot 4-500 times.

 

[PANZER22]

Majorlk post #3. "Firing pin channels should be blown out with compressed air, preferably from a compressor, not a can."

Why not canned air? I use it all the time on many things. Works well on my firearms. Just curious.

 

[Maddmax]

Majorlk post #3. "Firing pin channels should be blown out with compressed air, preferably from a compressor, not a can."

Why not canned air? I use it all the time on many things. Works well on my firearms. Just curious.

Not enough pressure like an air compressor can put out. If I don't hold onto the bolt,the pressure will blow it out of my hand.

 

[Majorlk]

Majorlk post #3. "Firing pin channels should be blown out with compressed air, preferably from a compressor, not a can."

Why not canned air? I use it all the time on many things. Works well on my firearms. Just curious.

Because you can't get enough air pressure out of a can. IMO, 75 to 90 psi is best. Canned air is ok for flat surfaces but not for forcing air through the firing pin channel, past the pin.

Besides, in the long run, a compressor is cheaper and easier than cans.

 

[Boz]

Also, some canned air products can be corrosive.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Down side of using a compressor is the water in the air. Maybe it is not an issue for you Yankees living up north, but down south we have loads of humidity. When a compressor pressurizes the air by reducing its volume, most of the water vapor condenses into liquid water and remains in the compressor tank and air lines.

So down here, we have to use dryers/separators, but even then there still is some moisture in the air. To get completely dry air down here requires some very specialized & expensive attachments.

 

[MarkBrumbaugh]

Update. S&W said to send in my rifle, but I have had 100 % success for last several hundred rounds. I think I'll hold off.