Repairing a new item?

[speedyquad]

I'm on a discussion on another gun forum, and it seems as i'm in the minority with my opinion.

it seems these other guys are ok with the idea of performing work on an item, not just a gun, for it to even function right out of the box. i'm not talking about improving the trigger so it has less pull or is smoother.

case in point. to save money, i bought a mossberg 715t. in the first 4 months, i had to send it back twice. the 2 other people that i know that have bought these have also had to send them back. i eventually sold this p.o.s. and bought a 15-22. anyway, i have been told the rifle not functioning 100% is my fault as i did not smooth here, file there. i was told because this is only a $300 gun, this should be expected, but not on a $600 gun.

my side is, whether it is a $20 item or a $1000 item, it should function correctly out of the box and it up to the manufacturer to make it right. Am I expecting too much?

 

[Hillbilly77]

If I spend my hard-earned money on a product that is brand-new, I expect it to perform 100%, period.

If I elect to improve it, like APEX trigger mods in my M&P or a DIY action job on my SP101, that's different. They functioned as they should before I changed anything though - thats the important part.
If I have to fix or repair a brand-new item to make it work out of the box, that's BS and I won't do it.

 

[shouldazagged]

Papa Oscar Sierra...

Of course it should be ready to function when you unpack it. That kind of "Hey, it was inexpensive, what do you expect?" garbage presumes the manufacturer's right to screw us with poor design or quality control.

 

[Stevie]

Should be able to expect reasonable perfection on a new gun no matter the price. However that just ain't so..

Quality assurance....it is not quality control

 

[snowman]

I agree with all the above. I understand that manufacturing has a large human element and therefore that there will be mistakes here and there. However if a manufacturer begins to like the idea of using me, the customer, as a QC or testing associate, then they had better put me on their payroll.

Andy

 

[wyccad915]

I agree. It's not difficult to do this types of work, but it shouldn't be a requirement and only be needed to be done if you want to improve performance. Oh well, some products are made really cheap and I guess they cut corners

 

[speedyquad]

i'm glad i am not in the minority here...if i make a mistake at my job, i a, held accountable for it. if the company wants to produce junk then i won't buy it. i work hard for my money and even if the item or service is only $1, i still expect it to be 100%.

i guess what surprised me about this was so many people over there felt it was ok to do this to get the gun to function properly.

i also need to say is that i joined after i bought the Papa Oscar Sierra and had troubles with it. at least i have the 15-22 now.

 

[desi2358]

I believe a product should be fully functional right out of the box. Unfortunately that is not often the case nowadays. Part of the problem is the attempts to reduce costs with new manufacturing techniques without any effort to be sure the parts will fit and work as designed.

As an example, many new guns are full of stamped parts which will have rough edges due to the way they are made. These parts need to be smoothed up and inspected before use, even with machine polishing they cut corners to reduce costs and many of these parts will still be rough when they go onto the assembly line. I've found many rough, sharp edges on small parts in new guns.

That's just a single example but there are many others. So often it comes down to reducing costs and the consumer be d****d! It's not just gun makers either, I spent 16 years in the automotive business and it's a problem in many industries. Auto companies in particular let the consumer do a lot of the product testing. Cadillac 4.1 V8 anyone?

Firearms can be fairly labor intensive in design and assembly, they also require people to really understand exactly how and what works. Some designs fail just because they were not fully developed when rushed to the marketplace (like some GM products I worked with) some fail because they are simply a bad design and can't be made reliable within the design parameters. Add in all those little cost savers and some real junk hits the shelves and the consumer pays the price.

 

[Bekeart]

Remembering a long ago conversation with Cactus Kid - a ninety plus year old gunsmith.

If the guy that made it couldn't get it to work out the factory door.

You can't expect me to fix it either.

 

[Badquaker]

As long as customers continue to purchase guns/cars/houses and accept warranty repairs, the manufacturer has no incentive to improve.

Blame society.

 

[Big Fred]

Remembering a long ago conversation with Cactus Kid - a ninety plus year old gunsmith.

If the guy that made it couldn't get it to work out the factory door.

You can't expect me to fix it either.

I really like that. Sounds like the Cactus Kid was a very smart man.

speedyquad, I agree with you. If you buy a product it should work out of the box.

 

[speedyquad]

i'm not so sure the issue is warranty repair, as fixing it yourself to avoid the hassle of using the warranty...of course i always think of Chris Farley in Tommyboy when he makes his first sale...

"Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted. Why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of s*^$. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

Ted Nelson, Customer: [pause] Okay, I'll buy from you.

Tommy: Well, that's...

Tommy, Richard Hayden: ...What? "

 

[yeti]

I am quite comfortable polishing parts to improve performance/reliability. However, if I am forced to do that to make a brand new product even function...that is completely unacceptable.
If a manufacturer addresses the issues courteously and in a timely manner... I will be alright with it. I may continue to buy their products, but I will always keep the incident in mind and look for better quality in the future.

Let me say this and I am not targeting any brand in particular...
There is a certain level of cost associated with a quality product of whatever type. Be wary if the cost is very low...because the quality will undoubtedly be the same...low. Don't be shocked if your El Cheapo whatever doesn't work all the time.

 

[Bekeart]

Smartest Man I Ever Knew Finished Third Grade

Big Fred - you sure called that one right on target.

I( have worked for three universities with numerous people educated beyond their intelligence.

Cactus Kid was the SMARTEST man I ever knew.
He had finished third grade and from then on was self educated.

He knew how to make parts.

I learned a LOT from that man. Wish I had know him longer.

I really like that. Sounds like the Cactus Kid was a very smart man.

 

[speedyquad]

i knew buying it, i was getting a lesser gun, but not a single shot semiauto that spent more time at the factory for repairs than what it spent at the range shooting...lol

 

[Alpo]

If it don't work, you send it back. Because if you attempt to make it work, you have voided the warranty.

Some years ago my boss bought this piece of inspection equipment. About a grand. When it arrived, two of the metal clamps holding the lens were bent, so the lens would not rotate. I told him to return it. It's damaged, so let the factory replace it. He said that no, he could straighten them, and we needed it NOW, not three weeks from now. So he did get them, kinda, straightened. In the process though, he broke the lens. Three hundred dollars for a new lens and it still took three weeks to get it working. And now the thousand-dollar piece of equipment, that cost us 13 hundred dollars, still only worked "kinda/sorta", because the clamps were still bent.

 

[timn8er]

Totally agree with the prevailing sentiment here. R & D needs to be done before the product reaches me.

 

[feralmerril]

I have always found it interesting how people will buy a exspendsive colt 1911 with the idea that they are going to put another $1,000s or so into it before they even do the paper work.

 

[Rule3]

Kahr firearms= put 250 rounds through it before we will talk to you, then send it back, then send it back again.

KelTec= Fluff and Buff or just send it back before using.

Larry Seecamp once told me. Continuing to fire a non functioning firearm will not fix it.

 

[perrazi]

it's called beta testing.