Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

[Ammobob]

This thread is so pointless that it's, well, pointless. Just think of all the ammo you've lost out on while contributing to this thread.

If you think it's pointless why are you posting in it?

 

[Ammobob]

Call it what you want, Bob, rationalize it any way you want ...

but whining, by any other name, is still whining ...

Anyway. It has always been and always will be about the ethics of what some sellers are doing. I am both surprised and sorry that some people either don't seem to get that, or are deliberately being smug or ignorant, or have no sense of ethics and are trying to derail the thread.

If you don't want to contribute, or don't like the topic, please do me a favor and move on. I am thankful to those who have added useful posts to the discussion. I realize ethics are a very subjective topic.

 

[Ammobob]

Throwing that hoarder label around with nothing to back it up?

I don't hoard, I shoot. I went through something over 20k (all calibers) last year, but even if I didn't shoot and stashed it all away for the great zombie hoards, WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOUR'S, AMMOBOB'S or any one else??? NOT ONE STINKING BIT!!!

Nobody was trying to get into anyone's business. I was simply questioning the ETHICS of the way some people are pricing things and doing business (as in unethical business practices) during a perceived "crisis". No reason for anyone to misconstrue that, or to be getting angry. It's a simple ethics question, as that's what I am currently studying is business ethics and personal ethics in times of perceived "crisis". How some people's ethics, honor, morals, and desire to help their fellow man goes down the sewer, and how the me, me, me attitude and mindset is starting to take over in America today.

If you don't like that, or don't agree with it, don't post.

 

[Ammobob]

In my 5 months on this board, this may be the most ridiculous thread yet.

Then don't participate if you don't like it. Doesn't it make you ridiculous by association?

 

[Dezfan]

Do you own a home Bob?

 

[Ammobob]

I don't.

Around here a guy can drive around to Walmart, Dick's Sporting Goods, Academy, Sportsmans Warehouse... and find very reasonable price stickers on empty shelves. Or, a guy can go to Benton Shooters and find VERY high price stickers on stocked shelves. Benton Shooters is providing a service that others are not. Benton Shooters could lower their prices to $20/brick and be out of ammo in five minutes. So then there would be no one with in stock ammo. That would be great, eh? No.

Ok so we differ in our opinion of what's ethical. I have presented other scenarios of what I consider to be unethical business practices. I understand your reasoning is by charging an arm and a leg for it, they are making sure there is a supply. I get that. But the idea that there is a legitimate supply problem is false to begin with, and people are using the opportunity to make boatloads of money instead of passing on reasonable prices to the customer to ensure long term customer returns.

I can either take advantage of my customers and charge 5x what the product is worth and make a short term windfall, or I can provide what I get to my loyal customers at my normal profit margin and ensure that I have treated them well, they will remember who did good by them, and will return to me, as being "fair" when things return to normal. Better business model for a brick and mortar store I would think. If I were selling out of the back of my truck and not caring if you came back tomorrow, it would be a better business practice to get all I can get with every purchase. I'm surprised more people don't understand basic business.

 

[JonF]

Well kids.......

....you could always do what I did. Went back to reloading my trusty .38special. I scrounge around to gun shows and a couple of local gun shops for all the components. I buy obsolete wadcutters for range work and I ask POLITELY for primers and powder when they become available. I take my time building a 100 or so rounds at a time and really enjoy the process.
Seems that many people today are in such a damn hurry to go nowhere that they miss whats in front of them.

Course i'm 74 and what do I know ?

 

[Ammobob]

I see nothing useless about it.

It's all open discussion and expression of opinions and views.

We may to all agree on the cause or the cure, but by discussing the topic and expressing our opinions, it helps us all see the other side of the discussion.

I find that valuable.

Thank you. And that's what it's all about, the discussion. Although the people that are letting this degrade into personal attacks and such are beyond disappointing. It's a discussion board, and very relevant to the situation at hand. (and my ethics class)

 

[the ringo kid]

Personally I dont mind a person making a profit be it selling old Comic Books, DvDs, Ammo etc but--just speaking for myself only, if I were selling some of these items--I would set a ceiling on how much to charge-such as; when I was younger-I charged $15.00 to mow a yard, edge it, weed eat it and clean up the left-overs. I did this while others charged more than double my price-and-not trying to brag--I always did a better job than some of the others.

 

[Ammobob]

Y'all could have bought all the bulk pack .22 you wanted at $150/case last year. You didn't. You spent your money on other stuff because you figured you could stop by Walmart to buy a brick whenever you wanted. You figured wrong.

That you are running around like a chicken with its head cut off looking for ammo is not due to a moral failure of others.

That's not the "moral" or "ethical" side of the problem I am asking about at all. I agree it's your fault if you are without ammo, money, food, water, whatever. YOUR FAULT. I believe heavily in personal responsibility.

The side I was looking at was the "questionable" business practices of some during a "crisis" event. And I do believe in capitalism as I have said many times, and there is always bad with the good. But, that being said, there will always be situations within such a system that people see as "excessive" or "greedy" or "immoral" or "unethical" regardless of their overall belief in, and even vehement support of the system itself. Very interesting to me....and the heart of this lively discussion.

 

[Ammobob]

Do you own a home Bob?

Yes. I don't know how that it relevant to a discussion of ethics but I am curious to see where you are going so I'll play.

 

[Dezfan]

Yes. I don't know how that it relevant to a discussion of ethics but I am curious to see where you are going so I'll play.

If you decided you wanted to sell it, would you sell it for what you paid or slightly over, or would you ask market value?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The side I was looking at was the "questionable" business practices of some during a "crisis" event.

Here's the "question". As I illustrated earlier.... Would you prefer that Benton Shooters had no ammo in stock like others? I answered No. You?

 

[Lost Lake]

I understand your reasoning is by charging an arm and a leg for it, they are making sure there is a supply. I get that. But the idea that there is a legitimate supply problem is false to begin with, and people are using the opportunity to make boatloads of money instead of passing on reasonable prices to the customer to ensure long term customer returns.

Are you sure?

These sellers used to get in a semi-load every time they called the warehouse. They could sell ammo at a 25% mark-up and keep the lights on.

NOW they can't get squat from the warehouse.

So how do you expect a store that sold $30,000 worth of ammo a month to keep from going under when all they can get now is a measly case every other week?

THAT'S what is driving the price up. The demand has far outstripped supply and people can't get what they want.

There are two ways out of this, and lowering prices is NOT one of them.

We can either flood the market with product and drive prices down, or we have to wait until everyone has all the ammo they want.

.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

But the idea that there is a legitimate supply problem is false to begin with, and people are using the opportunity to make boatloads of money instead of passing on reasonable prices to the customer to ensure long term customer returns.

There is no ammo supply problem? Seriously? Granted, I have no idea what is a legitimate problem as opposed to an illegitimate one.

If there was no supply problem, you would not see ammo being gobbled up at 200-400% markup. We are simply seeing basic economic principles in action. We are in a buying frenzy brought on mainly due to political issues. We are getting a lesson in supply & demand in action. When supply catches up with demand, the price will drop.

 

[smokindog]

I'm about to stop visiting after seeing much of this thread but thought I'd toss in a parting shot (pun intended)

• There IS NO CRISIS, ammo is a commodity, not a necessity.
• Therefore, there is no problem of ethics. No one is witholding vital life sustaining service or product.
• I share with my friends, but I can always count on the reverse
• The fact that people pay stupid prices is not the seller's fault, it's the buyer's
• There is more demand than supply, that is fact
• Businesses run by profit, not by giving everyone a trophy for showing up
• Whining is very unattractive
• If you have no ammo, it's not someone else's fault
• Most things in life that happen to you are your own fault

 

[Buck31]

My feelings change day to day when i think about this "crisis". i have always felt that any item is only worth what someone will pay for it. My problem is something prevents me from being able to charge more for something than I should. Many of the retailers with higher prices have lost my business, but if the gougers are buying low and selling high, why can't they?
I am comfortable knowing I have not ripped anyone off and that I have paid fair prices for the little bit that I do have.
I enjoy reading others thoughts on this and hope it all clears up soon. Wants and needs are two different things. Everyone I know has survived more than 3 days without ammo, none have survived 3 days without water

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

We are in a buying frenzy brought on mainly due to political issues.

Exactly. This was not created by hoarders, gougers... blah blah blah. This is the result of government meddling in areas that it should not, creating uncertainty where none should exist.

I believe demand will be strong for some time to come. Starting next year, there will be millions of NY gun owners forced by law to only purchase ammo face to face from state registered sellers. Background check on the buyer will be required. The sales will be recorded and stored in a state government operated database. They will monitor who is buying what and quantity. What will be the magic number that puts you over the limit and then placed on some type of terrorist watch list? I don't know, but the Governor mentioned 6k on his website a couple months ago. I wouldn't want to be on a list like that. My guess is that millions of NY gun owners don't either. I sure can't blame them for buying everything they can now. Those who live in other highly regulated states like California are likely concerned that their states might follow. Uncertainty will likely drive demand and put pressures on supply for quite a while.

 

[Four T5]

Wow! My ammo price gouge thread was locked after one page. I'm loving this one. I can't wait for another 7+ paragraph post from DICK so I can fall asleep...

 

[les strat]

If everyone would just say "no", and not pay ungodly prices, you'd be surprised how fast prices would plummet. Just don't buy any. It's not like gas where you have to have it to get to work. As long as there is a "panic", prices will stay high. Just chill out. The businesses will be sitting on overstock with their money tied up where they bought retail at WM/Academy/Dicks and marked it up. That's the other side to supply and demand. Sometimes the seller loses bigtime.