44 Mag Ammo Differences?

[Crimson Tide]

Hi all. I purchased a 629 3" TALO a few weeks ago and love it! The fit, finish and proportions of this gun are awesome! This is the first 44 mag that I have owned or shot. When I picked it up at my FFL, I also picked up a box of Fiocchi 240gr SJSP mags, and a box of 44 special. Well I went shooting last week and started off with the Fiocchi mags. Recoil was about what I expected (hoped), stiff but nothing major - just right for me. I was able to put shots on target with ease. Next I tried a few 44 specials...nice easy shooting, but not nearly as exciting as the mags. I finished off the box of 50 Fiocchi mags, and just had to shoot some more, so I purchased a box of American Eagle 240gr JHP at the range. Wow! Huge difference. Significantly more recoil than the Fiocchi mags- to the point that I was puzzled and done after 3 cylinders worth with a sore thumb. I have looked at the ballistics, for both rounds that I was shooting, on the respective company websites and I see this: Fiocchi 240gr JSP = 1310 fps and American Eagle 240gr JHP = 1230 fps. Anyone know why the recoil from the American Eagle mags would be so much more? Seems like they would be about the same. Maybe my hand was just getting tired - I did shoot several other guns in between 44 mag boxes. Any ideas from some experienced 44 mag shooters?

 

[DR505]

Well, you can always chronograph the ammunition...that will tell you a lot right away. Comparing published velocities could be an apples/oranges proposition. If one company claims 1300 fps but uses a 10" barrel, another company might claim 1250 fps but uses a 4" barrel to measure...makes a HUGE difference.

 

[BigBill]

In one of the older reloading manuals the crono'd most of the newer over the counter ammo and found the feet per second to be way under the manufactures specs. This is why I reload. For target shooting and practice any ammo is ok. But if I depend on my 44mag out in the wilds it better be the best quality ammo I can reload.

 

[Crimson Tide]

Good points

Thanks for the responses guys. I got to looking and couldn't find barrel lengths for the reported velocities with either bullet. It makes a lot of sense that barrel length would be a big factor. I had never thought of getting a chrono figuring they would be expensive, but I now see the prices aren't really too high. I might have to give that a try.

Thanks again

 

[ostlund]

Chronograph checks are a good datapoint, but won't tell the whole story. Another datapoint is what kind of powder did they use regarding burn rate? For example, a slow burn rate in a shorter barrel leads to more percieved boom. A faster powder gets used better in the shorter tube leading to less muzzle flash. I think an individual's perception contribute too. Still not the whole story! Just another variable to ponder.

 

[DonD]

Early .44 Mag factory ammo ballistics tended to be relatively optimistic and much of today's factory ammo is watered down, why I don't know.

They go from energy levels on the order of high 800 ft lbs to close to double that in offerings like Buffalo Bore. Shoot one of the mild ones and then a BB and you WILL notice the difference.

Same thing in the S&W .500 Mag. Shoot the mild 275 gr Barnes loads and you wonder what the fuss is about, shoot hot 440 gr cast slug rounds and you'll experience the real thing. Don

 

[Neumann]

Most factory loads, other than specialized for hunting or self defense, tend to be on the wimpy side. I load my own to a pretty stout level, using hard cast (Oregon Trail) 240 grain bullets over 2400 powder (my loads are my risk, based on testing), about 1300 fps out of a 4" barrel.

If your thumb is taking a beating, change your grip so that your thumb doesn't rest on the recoil plate. That will "get" you even with .357 Magnum or .45 Colt. I hold my thumb forward, relaxed and parallel to the barrel. Some people hold it straight up, 1911 style. I still get smacked in the palm of my hand, but after the first 6-12 shots, it goes numb.

 

[Crimson Tide]

Back to the range

Thanks for all the responses...more good points to consider. I went shooting again this weekend and this time shot some Georgia-Arms 240gr FMJ quoted as 1,000 fps and 240 gr JSP Winchester white box, about 75 total. Nice shooting with both. I have no doubt that heavy loads can put a whoopin on the hand from this gun. I think last time I was just jittery being the first time I've shot a 44 mag. Again this time I shot plenty of 45 and 357sig between shooting the 44. I did adjust my grip some while shooting - actually moved my hand down slightly and loosened my grip a bit from a death grip. I think that I was gripping too high and too tightly before. I just love to shoot this gun and it has become my favorite hands down. It's accurate and has a great feel. I can see more 44 mag revolvers in my future. Still thinking about getting a chrono. I'm curious about bullet speed with different ammo brands from several different guns.

 

[Larry from Bend]

I reload my centerfire revolver cartridges but I once bought some Fiocchi in 22 Mag --- It was terrible stuff. 100 fps slower than WW and very inaccurate (Ruger Single Six).

I load 285 grain BearTooth hardcasts to 1235 fps out of a 5" 629. Even with these grips, the recoil is not bad at all.

I still have some WW 240 JHP from the early 70s that I used in my first Model 29. I haven't chronoed it; but that stuff "stings".

 

[H Richard]

If you want to try something very accurate, try the Hornady Leverevolution (intended for 44mag rifle loads in lever guns) I shot 5 rounds from a 10" TC wit a 4X scope on it at 25 yards. See the group.

 

[Larry from Bend]

Nice group!!

This one was shot with the 5" 629 and 285 grain load that I mentioned above; also @ 25 yards.

 

[DR505]

Nice group!!

This one was shot with the 5" 629 and 285 grain load that I mentioned above; also @ 25 yards.

I'll have to try that load. If one owns a .44 magnum, reloading gives so many more options and makes the caliber incredibly versatile. I also have a .44 magnum Marlin 1894 lever action that shoots cast bullets nicely...great combo for pig hunting in the brush.

I have a good 265 grain .41 mag load for my 6½" 657-2 CH that is quite the pig hammer too...reloading is the way to go!

 

[blueknight7]

I have had a few chronographs for a number of years now. One thing that is pretty much a constant, the larger factory loads are pretty watered down, to what they are publishing. This may be from testing through a universal receivers, with who knows what barrel length. Or, marketing. But, they have to keep their corporate attorneys happy, or they are in court.

The custom loaders, i.e. Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Underwood, Double Tap, and others, are usually closer to their published velocities. They aren't going to stay in business long, if they are way off. But, that doesn't mean they don't have some lapses, too. I guess they figure if we can afford their ammo, we can probably afford a chronograph, and will actually check. When it doesn't wash out. Its all over the net, to 3 billion people, in about 30 seconds.

I have also found that the reloading data, even followed to the tee, including the exact same weapon, is highly inflated. One reloading site on the internet has some amazing velocities for the .264 Winchester Mag. If you believe what they are spoon feeding you. You are 300 fps. behind what they are publishing. That is using the exact same components, with exactly the same weapon.

Only one factory load I have fired, that was what you would call as spot on, was Win. Power Point, 140 gr. in .264 Win. Mag. Factory calls for 3030 fps. In my Rem. Sendero, it runs 3036 fps. Only one thing wrong with this. They are using a 24" test barrel. My Sendero has a 26" barrel. So, I guess they are inflating that too.

With careful reloading, and measuring every load, you can crack at least 3200 fps. with a 140 gr. out of a .264 Win Mag. But, not with factory ammo. And not with a barrel less than 26".

 

[moxie]

Even though not nearly as pretty, try a Hogue Monogrip. Much better control, and less pain too!

Hogue Monogrip Grips S&W N-Frame Round Butt Rubber Black

 

[DonD]

If you want to try something very accurate, try the Hornady Leverevolution (intended for 44mag rifle loads in lever guns) I shot 5 rounds from a 10" TC wit a 4X scope on it at 25 yards. See the group.

That's wonderful accuracy, would be interested in seeing how it would do at 50 & 100? Don

 

[aurora40]

I have looked at the ballistics, for both rounds that I was shooting, on the respective company websites and I see this: Fiocchi 240gr JSP = 1310 fps and American Eagle 240gr JHP = 1230 fps. Anyone know why the recoil from the American Eagle mags would be so much more?

I've browsed the forums here many times for info on my 629 as well as other S&W's I've considered. Figured here's a place I can give back.

Anyway, the reason why the recoil is so different is because Fiocchi exaggerates their velocity and AE underpromises on it.

From my 8 3/8" 629, The AE 240 gr averages 1425 fps while 240 gr Fiocchi only manages 1295 fps. The AE over delivers by about 15% while Fiocchi only does 98% of the claim (from a pretty long barrel).

I've found AE ammo to be pretty warm in general. In .357 and .44 it's up there among the hottest readily available/affordable ammo I've tested.

Fiocchi seems decent, it does reasonable speeds and is usually cheaper. It's stouter than stuff like Blazer or PMC or something. They seem to way overpromise on their advertised velocities though.

From my 4" GP100, their 142 gr .357 makes a respectable 500 ft-lbs of energy, but it comes in at only 88% of their published velocity. I don't know what kind of crazy test barrels they are using.

 

[Crimson Tide]

Thanks for all the input

Guys thanks to all for your help. I have since become a hopeless 44 mag nut Recoil seems rather trivial now after several range visits. My lineup now includes S&W 3" Talo, 2.6" PC, and...yes a Ruger Redhawk 5.5" that is also a really, really nice gun too. Currently gunning for a S&W 6" talo deluxe, or snub 460. I need a weekend job to fund my gun habits (or sell off some lower caliber pop guns!!)