Is the .40 dead ? Let's see some !

[Law-dog]

One of the interesting things about the 40 vs the 10mm is how they were optimized for performance at birth but then along came new powders that made them much closer in power.

First start with the industry standards and ammo design. The 40 SW is made for a 4 inch barrel and ammo created accordingly decades ago. The 10mm was designed for a 5 inch barrel and ammo invented for best performance in that case capacity.

Now enter new powders since them, CFE and LilGun. The case capacity has a little room that allows for light weight bullets in the 40 SW to increase velocity dramatically, that only applies to 135 and 155 grain bullets, as the heavier ones need the additional powder that you can cram into the longer 10mm case.

Now pull out the latest manuals, the 2022 version of the Nosler manual or it is copied in the Hodgen data.

You can drive the 135 grain bullet in the 40 SW to 1,400 fps. That is 10mm range of the past.

Here is the Hodgen data for the 4 inch barrel, for those above 1,300 fps.

View attachment 778359


At 1,300 fps that is 507 FPE, at 1,400 fps that is 588. That power level did not exist then the 40 SW was actively sold to shooters and police. In fact, the load was a 180 grain at 950 fps which was 360 fpe and the Black Talon was about the same. Only the early Corbon ammo was above 1,350 fps, and now all of the premium ammo brands are hot like this. Point is, back in the day, the 40 SW was sold as producing under 400 FPE, all of the premium brands today exceed 500FPE. What we knew about the 40 forty years ago is totally unrelated to what we know today. Because of new powders.

View attachment 778360

Bottom line. If you want a 357 magnum level semi auto that is reasonable in size, like the Glock 23 or others, the 40 SW is the round of choice. Of course the 357 Sig will do the same.
My 2 cents.

I said LilGun, the better powder is Longshot, producing 617 fpe. That is solid 10mm ballistics from only a 4 inch barrel.

 

[biku324]

Longshot is perfect in 40.

 

[charlie sherrill]

I've got several 40's that I carried for the last few years of my LEO career. I've taken two bucks with my Glock 22, one a single shot, the other a double tap. My last firearm purchase was about three weeks ago. It was a S&W M&P 40 marked California State Parks. It looks unfired. It came from Aim Surplus for $249.00.

 

[Sevens]

It was a S&W M&P 40 marked California State Parks. It looks unfired. It came from Aim Surplus for $249.00.

There are also similarly marked 4006’s out on the market, the emblem with the bear is awesome but all the 4006’s are the adjustable rear sight guns and, well, yeeesh.

 

[Frank Black]

One of the interesting things about the 40 vs the 10mm is how they were optimized for performance at birth but then along came new powders that made them much closer in power.

First start with the industry standards and ammo design. The 40 SW is made for a 4 inch barrel and ammo created accordingly decades ago. The 10mm was designed for a 5 inch barrel and ammo invented for best performance in that case capacity.

Now enter new powders since them, CFE and LilGun. The case capacity has a little room that allows for light weight bullets in the 40 SW to increase velocity dramatically, that only applies to 135 and 155 grain bullets, as the heavier ones need the additional powder that you can cram into the longer 10mm case.

Now pull out the latest manuals, the 2022 version of the Nosler manual or it is copied in the Hodgen data.

You can drive the 135 grain bullet in the 40 SW to 1,400 fps. That is 10mm range of the past.

Here is the Hodgen data for the 4 inch barrel, for those above 1,300 fps.

View attachment 778359


At 1,300 fps that is 507 FPE, at 1,400 fps that is 588. That power level did not exist then the 40 SW was actively sold to shooters and police. In fact, the load was a 180 grain at 950 fps which was 360 fpe and the Black Talon was about the same. Only the early Corbon ammo was above 1,350 fps, and now all of the premium ammo brands are hot like this. Point is, back in the day, the 40 SW was sold as producing under 400 FPE, all of the premium brands today exceed 500FPE. What we knew about the 40 forty years ago is totally unrelated to what we know today. Because of new powders.

View attachment 778360

Bottom line. If you want a 357 magnum level semi auto that is reasonable in size, like the Glock 23 or others, the 40 SW is the round of choice. Of course the 357 Sig will do the same.
My 2 cents.

All of the benefits of the new/improved propellants you mentioned, including the use of special hybrid powders that McNett @ DT pioneered early on (circa 2004), apply as well to the 10mm and to a lesser extent the .45acp. The hybrid powders helped make the 10mm great again because they allow for more velocity with less pressure than the powders ammo-makers (like Norma) used back in the day.

Just as a rising tide will lift all boats, large & small, so too do improvements in bullet technology and the composition of propellants impart benefits that cross-pollinate to other cartridges.

The “better” bullets that we have in 2025, for example, (better materials and design) clearly improved the 9mm’s lethality on the street. But they also benefit a cartridge like the 10mm, in that you can find well-constructed projectiles of various weights that will hold up to real 10mm velocities. That wasn’t the case back in the’80s or ‘90s.

 

[bananaman]

I only have 2 .40 pistols. Jericho steel full size and RIA Commander. Love the Jericho looks and feel. (wish I had more or CZ clones) Added a double recoil reducing spring. It was an unissued Israeli police/ military weapon. Commander is Tactical II. Both are a little snappy, but can handle it. Bob