I disagree with the start real close method. Doing this you can hit the target but not learn anything. You need to start a little farther back where you must concentrate and apply yourself. Then work back as you progress. Some quickdraw up close work at the end of each session for self defense practice.
At What Distance?
- Thread starter jblank37
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Thanks to everyone for your replies.
And to jss4uva, I am sorry, I did very much mean yards instead of feet in my original post.
And to Rastoff, Practicing for a little of both, fun and self defense.
Everyone, thanks again.
Friends, John
And to jss4uva, I am sorry, I did very much mean yards instead of feet in my original post.
And to Rastoff, Practicing for a little of both, fun and self defense.
Everyone, thanks again.
Friends, John
garyjandfamily
Member
Like you I practice for speed out of the holster + accuracy from combat ranges.
My nemesis right now is a 5-yard head shot (3x4 inch target), out of the holster (which is strong-side, under a concealment garment), in 1.9 seconds or less. I can hit it every time in about 2.2 seconds or less, or 60% of the time in 1.9 seconds or less. It just takes me that last split second to fully align the sights!
-sigh- Oh well, more dry practice!!
Rastoff
US Veteran
I would suggest that you spend your serious practice time solely on self defense. What you gain there is easily translated to just having fun while shooting. Try to set serious practice range sessions. At these the focus is on very serious honing of skills.
Nothing wrong with going out and having fun, but if you want to defend yourself, you owe it to yourself to prepare with a purpose.
I'm curious, do you intend this 1.9 second head shot to be your first shot in an encounter?
Proline
Member
Sure hope not!
garyjandfamily
Member
Nope. Unless it has to be...
And before I have to listen to endless droning about how I shouldn't practice like that, my complete workout (dry or hot) is:
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 3m range, <1.8 seconds
2 shots center of mass from low ready, 5m range, <1.4 seconds
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 5m range, <2.0 seconds
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 7m range, <2.1 seconds
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 10m range, <2.6 seconds
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 15m range, <2.9 seconds
2 shots center of mass from holster/concealment, 25m range, <3.4 seconds
Failure to stop drill (2 center of mass, untimed head shot) from holster/concealment, 7m range, <2.1 seconds
1 head shot from holster/concealment, 5m range, <1.9 seconds
Type 1 malfunction clearance drill, <1.4 seconds
Type 2 malfunction clearance drill, <1.6 seconds
Type 3 malfunction clearance drill, <5.7 seconds
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Rastoff
US Veteran
I was just curious.
I like your practice drill. It looks awfully familiar. I do much the same except I don't do the timed head shot at 5m and I don't practice at 25m at all with a handgun. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't, I just don't.
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Head shots from the draw are part of my practice regimen too, mainly because IDPA course designers like to throw that in from time to time (recently it seems like every match at some point in the COF). Not too sure of it's relevance to actual situations because I'd be shooting center of mass.
garyjandfamily
Member
Thanks. I don't know why the timed 5m headshot is so much harder for me than the 25m center of mass. I think it's mental (tiny target - OH NO!), and I think that I'm slowly getting over it. And I agree, if the bad guy is 25m away, you should be finding cover or making tracks. Unless you can't...
I use an iphone app from Lucky Machete to give me the times for each drill. I really need to download one of the shot timer apps, but I haven't yet.
Big Cholla
Member
Well, after 20 years of teaching others how to shoot defensively, IMHO,I found that it is just the opposite of what you think. By starting out close, the student looses the need to look/see where each shot just hit and will listen to the coaching that is being given at the time. The coach can watch the accuracy and speed of subsequent shots and judge when the student to ready to move further away from the target. Quick, accurate handgun shooting is more than 50% mental. The coach must build the students confidence before all those proven shooting techniques can be taken by the student and built upon. ................ Big Cholla
Rpg
Member
I think an 8' circle is a little large, even with a .45. Perhaps an 8" circle would be more effective.
Richard
Sorry folks: 8" (inches) is correct: I'm all thumbs with these iPhone key pads.
Riflemann
Member
We have a real Sweet indoor range in town, and I shoot my shield 40 at 25 or 30 feet, and sometimes all the way out to 50 feet. Our indoor range is adding a 100 meter, 6-lane underground rifle range that should be done by the first of Jan 2014, and I can hardly wait. Only 100 meter underground rifle range within 700 miles they say.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I've never heard of a 100m indoor range. That would be sweet. I'll bet it's expensive to shoot there.
We have a range in North Jersey with two underground ports. You shoot through 3' sewer pipes. Then you have to go topside and walk the turf down to the other end and downstairs to the target area.
Membership at the range that Riflemann talked about is $200 a year with unlimited shooting. You can pay $75 plus $10 every time you shoot but the $200 deal is way better IMHO. We don't know if the price will change with the new rifle range.
Russ, I've begun using Crimson Trace Laser Grips on my M&P 40 compact (EDC) and my M&P FS 40 (home & range). The improvement in my groups and ability to fire rapidly is astonishing. I haven't enjoyed shooting so much in many years.
After 33 years as a law enforcement firearms instructor, I will weigh in on this. I look at all my pistol training as defensive hangun shooting. In other words, I train for real-world shooting scenarios.
If you look at most of the armed encounters by police officers or civilians, they are at very close range, and they are over very quickly. Not to say that you shouldn't be able to shoot a handgun at 25 yards, just that it very rarely happens at long distances.
I train my students to shoot a group about the size of your open hand in the available center of mass of the target. Any smaller group than that, you're shooting too slow, and any larger you're shooting too fast. Gauge the speed of your shooting on the size of your groups.
I also instruct my students to immediately migrate to cover. Shoot and then move as quickly as possible. Don't be in the same place after you fire.
I'm also a huge proponent of dry practice. It's one of the best ways to develope the muscle memory one needs for an armed encounter. As long as people remember to follow the safety rules regarding dry practice, it can be a great, and inexpensive way to hone your skills.
So keep training, and keep practicing, because these are very perishable skills.
If you look at most of the armed encounters by police officers or civilians, they are at very close range, and they are over very quickly. Not to say that you shouldn't be able to shoot a handgun at 25 yards, just that it very rarely happens at long distances.
I train my students to shoot a group about the size of your open hand in the available center of mass of the target. Any smaller group than that, you're shooting too slow, and any larger you're shooting too fast. Gauge the speed of your shooting on the size of your groups.
I also instruct my students to immediately migrate to cover. Shoot and then move as quickly as possible. Don't be in the same place after you fire.
I'm also a huge proponent of dry practice. It's one of the best ways to develope the muscle memory one needs for an armed encounter. As long as people remember to follow the safety rules regarding dry practice, it can be a great, and inexpensive way to hone your skills.
So keep training, and keep practicing, because these are very perishable skills.
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