Trouble with Federal white box

[jimmy.jet]

Anyone else have trouble with Federal white box .38 +P?
Two rounds out of fifty had the bullet seated so lightly it shook loose and jammed my revolver. When I got them out the bullets could be pulled from the case easily with two fingers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't think Federal ever made ammo in a white box. Are you talking about Winchester White Box ammo?

In any case, I don't remember anything from Federal or Winchester where the bullet could be pulled by fingers.

 

[Moonman]

I do be;liee Federal makes some "CONTRACT AMMO" in a white box.

I think I have some FEDERAL 38 Special +P 158 grain lead hollow points. (old FBI load?)

 

[Waywatcher]

Federal does make white box ammo; generally overrun type stuff.

Federal 38G is widely known to have the exact problem you describe; for some reason Federal neglected to crimp the ammo and neck tension is nonexistant.

I avoid the stuff.

 

[jimmy.jet]

I don't think Federal ever made ammo in a white box. Are you talking about Winchester White Box ammo?

In any case, I don't remember anything from Federal or Winchester where the bullet could be pulled by fingers.

Here 'tis

 

[jimmy.jet]

Federal does make white box ammo; generally overrun type stuff.

Federal 38G is widely known to have the exact problem you describe; for some reason Federal neglected to crimp the ammo and neck tension is nonexistant.

I avoid the stuff.

I'll do so as well in the future.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Now that you mention it I do remember seeing Federal ammo in a plain white box but i never heard of anyone referring to is as Federal White box ammo. That title us usually used for Winchester ammo. Sorry...

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

A lot of Federal's surplus "over run" or failed contract ammo goes into generic white boxes and will have an "XM" product number on the end label. Sometimes Federal will produce a specific run of ammo and place them in white boxes with their standard product number on it (I have seen the first batch of the 38Spl 125gr Nyclad, and some 38Spl 125JHP+P and 9mm 147JHP loads marketed like this).

Federal also produces (or did at one time) a line of standard range ammo ("Range and Target") that came in white boxes also.

The OP's 38Spl ammo may have been a rejected contract load because they didn't have a tight enough roll crimp on the case mouth.

Any ammo with the XM product code should be considered range fodder and not carry/SD ammo.

 

[kaaskop49]

Oh, for the 'good' old days when we could just buy a box of ammo. Now, not only is the import stuff suspect, the U.S. made fodder can be questionable. Gonna hafta test the 38G load for bullet pull-out. APPRECIATE that heads-up, Waywatcher!

 

[SundownIII]

Just run it thru a Lee Factory Crimp die and recrimp the case.

Problem solved.

 

[ladyT]

Folks there is no such thing as overrun ammo these days as contracts are difficult to fill these days Federal produces ammo in white boxes (Range and Target). I have it in 40 s&w and 45acp.

 

[Waywatcher]

A lot of Federal's surplus "over run" or failed contract ammo goes into generic white boxes and will have an "XM" product number on the end label. Sometimes Federal will produce a specific run of ammo and place them in white boxes with their standard product number on it (I have seen the first batch of the 38Spl 125gr Nyclad, and some 38Spl 125JHP+P and 9mm 147JHP loads marketed like this).

Federal also produces (or did at one time) a line of standard range ammo ("Range and Target") that came in white boxes also.

The OP's 38Spl ammo may have been a rejected contract load because they didn't have a tight enough roll crimp on the case mouth.

Any ammo with the XM product code should be considered range fodder and not carry/SD ammo.

XM designation does not necessarily indicate failed or rejected ammo. This is a pervasive myth. Sometimes federal ends up making more than is needed because a contract ends, and sometimes a lot might "fail" to meet contract specifications (for example, having an average velocity of 854fps instead of 880fps) which technically "fails" but is still perfectly serviceable, as individual guns will show as much variation in velocity. Even if a lot does technically "fail," it is still absolutely safe ammo that meets SAAMI specifications--the liability of selling out of spec ammo would be astronomical.

Some XM ammo, like the popular XM193 or XM855 most likely is made on the same equipment as military contract ammo.

In any case, the sheer volume of XM ammo available for purchase means it simply cannot all be rejected ammo.

I would feel perfectly at ease stoking my self defense guns with XM ammo, provided it proves reliable in my gun after at least 100 rounds with no malfunctions.

It should also be noted, that the ammo at the center of this discussion, 38G, does not have an XM designation.

 

[HCH]

All my Federal .40 S&W HST ammo in 135, 165, and 180 grain is in plain white boxes, and was just $20 a box before the ammo crisis. HST is fantastic ammo.

 

[Jaymo]

Just run it thru a Lee Factory Crimp die and recrimp the case.

Problem solved.

^ This. You should get higher velocities and less unburned powder, too.

 

[Waywatcher]

^ This. You should get higher velocities and less unburned powder, too.

That might just crimp the bullet to a smaller diameter too, since brass is elastic and lead is not, which would end up right back at square one, except now with an undersize bullet.

If crimping this 38G, use a standard roll crimp.

 

[ddixie884]

I bought a 1,000rnd case of this 38G ammo from SG Ammo during a more sane time. It was low priced and a member posted the lack of crimp. I ran it thru a regular Lee crimp die with a good stiff crimp setting. It made very nice looking ammo.

 

[SundownIII]

Waywatcher,

Maybe you've never used a "Lee Factory Crimp Die", but I can assure you that the Lee FCD will not leave the bullet undersized for the case. You can set the amount of roll crimp you desire.

I've used the Lee FCD on jacketed and cast bullets and never had the problem you're alluding to.

 

[ddixie884]

ttt............................

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

XM designation does not necessarily indicate failed or rejected ammo. This is a pervasive myth. Sometimes federal ends up making more than is needed because a contract ends, and sometimes a lot might "fail" to meet contract specifications (for example, having an average velocity of 854fps instead of 880fps) which technically "fails" but is still perfectly serviceable, as individual guns will show as much variation in velocity. Even if a lot does technically "fail," it is still absolutely safe ammo that meets SAAMI specifications--the liability of selling out of spec ammo would be astronomical.

Some XM ammo, like the popular XM193 or XM855 most likely is made on the same equipment as military contract ammo.

In any case, the sheer volume of XM ammo available for purchase means it simply cannot all be rejected ammo.

I would feel perfectly at ease stoking my self defense guns with XM ammo, provided it proves reliable in my gun after at least 100 rounds with no malfunctions.

It should also be noted, that the ammo at the center of this discussion, 38G, does not have an XM designation.

FYI, my info came directly from a Sr. employee at Federal when I asked very specific questions about 9mm 124FMJ Encapsulated made for the Taiwanese Police (failed their waterproof standards) and their 124FMJ-SWC+P+ made for a NY LEA (ultimately rejected by the agency). Both of these were "XM" products.

Never did I say or allude that "XM" marked products were unsafe to use.

When it comes to Federal handgun ammo, if it has an "XM" in the product code, it is a special product, being sold on the retail market, because it is either overrun/over stocked and/or rejected by the end user (like the examples I've already pointed out). And over the decades there has been a lot if "XM" products, primarily in the service calibers.

 

[Valmet]

I've shot a lot of Federal WB over the years and have never had trouble. As a matter of fact, 158-gr+P LSWCHP (Chicago load) is my cc round in my 442 Airweight.