NO 5 MK I .303 Jungle Carbine

[sigp220.45]

I finally found one of these at a semi-decent price. Probably because of this import mark:



Doesn't bother me a bit.

I love the sturdy utilitarian look of the thing:



In researching this, I found two phrases that come up in every single discussion: "wandering zero" and "kicks like a mule".

I think the first is a myth, largely brought on by the second. It comes with this recoil enhancer:



A look at the other side and the markings:





I'll probably try to see if there is some wood under the grime. Other than that it will stay as is.



Anyone else got one?

 

[jdh]

Scroll all the way down. First item listed in the No 5 Section. New production SOFT rubber. Well worth the price.

Springfield Sporters, Inc.

 

[shouldazagged]

I've always heard and read that that one kills on both ends. Have you shot it yet?

 

[OFT II]

I've had two of them over the years. One shot great, two to three inch groups at a hundred yards off a rest. The other did have a case of the wondering zero. It would start off well and after four or five rounds the point of impact would start moving up and to the left. Another thing that enhances the recoil is that flash hider on the barrel. It works exactly the opposite of a muzzle brake by adding to the rearward thrust. Great little rifle.

 

[LVSteve]

I have one, naturally. I did not think mine kicked that bad, but I always shoot with a ***** pad on because I am bony. I am reliably informed that Mosin carbines shooting heavy ball ammo are worse.

I need to do some work on mine as the bedding is slightly loose. The wood has shrunk a bit and I need to douse it in BLO and maybe even shim the draws.

The wandering zero seems to affect some rifles and not others. I think a lot of it is down to the bedding. I reckon that the barrel channel on the No.5 is rather tight compared with that on a No.4. This means that the slightest warp in the wood can cause left/right contact with the barrel and off goes the zero. The channel is likely tight so that the whole forend can be built with less wood and save weight.

 

[steveno]

my dad and uncle picked one these rifles out of a barrel of them for my 14 th birthday for $32 but that is about a 50 year ago price. it was pretty much like new. I spent the afternoon with a toothbrush and alcohol scrubbing the cosmoline off of it. I sure wished I had kept it

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I have an unissued one but I never got a chance to fire it yet.

 

[gregintenn]

I like it! I've kept an eye out for one for years, but so far haven't found one I would consider a bargain.

I've never heard a steel buttplate referred to as a "recoil enhancer". I have an old 99 Savage with a crescent buttplate. That's a real "recoil enhancer"! Especially from a bench.

 

[therevjay]

I like it! I've kept an eye out for one for years, but so far haven't found one I would consider a bargain.

I've never heard a steel buttplate referred to as a "recoil enhancer". I have an old 99 Savage with a crescent buttplate. That's a real "recoil enhancer"! Especially from a bench.

The "recoil enhancer" is the rubber pad on the butt. Which when soft (almost 70 yrs ago) reduced felt recoil somewhat. But now kind of "enhances" it. I haven't fired mine in over 30 yrs but I have painful memories.

 

[Faulkner]

I have shot a number of No5's in my time and I own a No4 MKII. I find that the No5 does indeed have more felt recoil than a No4, probably because of the lighter weight. But even so, "kicks like a mule" may be a bit over dramatic as I would compare the recoil of a No5 to be on par with a M1903 Springfield.

 

[sigp220.45]

I've always heard and read that that one kills on both ends. Have you shot it yet?

I just came back from giving it a try. I only had the five rounds in the photos and another strip of five that was even older. All ten went off without a hitch, and the rifle functioned just fine.

The recoil was noticeable, but not bad at all. Kind of like a 12 gauge with field loads.

I love it! Now the hunt begins for a stash of .303 ammo.

 

[Dave_n]

Picked one up for a relative song because it did not have a magazine. Since I had a couple of spares, and most mags were not numbered to the gun, it came home with me. Not a problem to shoot but then I do have a few Mk IIIs and Mk IVs, so quite used to the 0.303 (and still have around 500 rounds of corrosive surplus). Dave_n

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I have owned 6 of them over the years. Brit and Canadian. All shot excellent, no wandering zero on any with surplus ball ammo, recoil was never an issue, the best candidate for a true conversion to what today is described as a "Scout Rifle". Also, one of the baddest *** looking bayonets (for whatever they are useful for these days?) made in it's time. The .303 will kill just about everything beastie....and certainly has. The No.5 and all the S.M.L.E. variations are just one example of a military rifle that will be classic over the millenium. Damn fine gun, plain and simple, right up there next to the Mauser action and Springfield, neck and neck. Damn fine battle rifle, yes sir.

Thanks to all who posted photos in this thread, well done boys!

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Picked one up for a relative song because it did not have a magazine. Since I had a couple of spares, and most mags were not numbered to the gun, it came home with me. Not a problem to shoot but then I do have a few Mk IIIs and Mk IVs, so quite used to the 0.303 (and still have around 500 rounds of corrosive surplus). Dave_n

I guess I lucked out because my magazine is numbered.

James

 

[Texas Star]

Picked one up for a relative song because it did not have a magazine. Since I had a couple of spares, and most mags were not numbered to the gun, it came home with me. Not a problem to shoot but then I do have a few Mk IIIs and Mk IVs, so quite used to the 0.303 (and still have around 500 rounds of corrosive surplus). Dave_n

I bet you have NUMBER. 4's; not MARK IV's. The MK. IV is a .22 trainer rifle. Think of the MK III as the No. 1 rifle. I forget what No.2 was, maybe a .22. The No. 3 rifle is also known as the Pattern 14. It is a Mauser style, not a SMLE.

The No.4 was developed from the experimental No. 1 MK VI. It is redesigned for mass production and has a stiffer, flat-sided recever and a heavier barrel. Although adopted prior to WW II, I don't think the first examples began reaching troops until sometime in 1941. The rear sight is on the receiver, a better location, I think.

As you probably know, the No. 4 originally had a spike-like bayonet that was replaced by at least two types with normal blades.

Rather than use milsurp ammo, I prefer to use fresh ammo from Winchester, Norma, or Remington. The W-W .303 load as a sharper- pointed bullet that I think probably shoots flatter than the roundnosed R-P offering. I've read that Prvi Partizan Serbian ammo is good, but don't know any details about their bullet construction. For all I know, the bullet may not stand up to breaking heavy shoulder bones on bear, moose or elk.

Our member Clean Break has used Remington ammo with satisfaction. I think he's even used milsurp on coyotes. That's not legal on big game in most states. He's refinished the wood on his No. I MK III* and likes it a lot. Maybe he'll see this and post some of his excellent photos.

I got my first .303 at age 13 or 14. It was a Savage-made No. 4 MK i*.

I much prefer the Lee-Enfields to the Moisin-Nagant and some other old military rifles.

I've never fired a Jungle Carbine. If they kick more than the iron-sighted BSA .30/06 I once had, that's a fairly good bounce to the shoulder, especially from a bench. But a lot of the recoil comments on the Net come from new shooters who are unused to any recoil at all.

 

[GaryS]

I have one, naturally. I did not think mine kicked that bad, but I always shoot with a ***** pad on because I am bony. I am reliably informed that Mosin carbines shooting heavy ball ammo are worse.

I've never shot mine, but I have shot my Mosin 91/59. It has a Limb Saver butt pad on it, so it doesn't kick that much. It does put out an impressive 3 foot flame though.

One of these days I'll dig the No5 out of the gun safe and take it to the range.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have an un-issued Long Branch (Canadian). Never shot it as I had a couple of No 4's (long gone) and a 1903 Citadel Martini. Picked up a bunch of Iraqi 303 in the 80's. I thought the ammo was Greek, because of the "Delta" among the head stamp, turns out that triangle is a Farsi numeral. Many 303's have a "generous" chamber. If you reload with full length sizing, you will probably have head separation starting at 3 or 4 reloads (stuck case removers are all over, and mine for 30-06 works well). If you're used to 223 Rem or 30-30 they really kick, if you shoot hot 45-70's, then they seem pretty mild. Recoil is kind of subjective. Ivan

 

[Texas Star]

I have an un-issued Long Branch (Canadian). Never shot it as I had a couple of No 4's (long gone) and a 1903 Citadel Martini. Picked up a bunch of Iraqi 303 in the 80's. I thought the ammo was Greek, because of the "Delta" among the head stamp, turns out that triangle is a Farsi numeral. Many 303's have a "generous" chamber. If you reload with full length sizing, you will probably have head separation starting at 3 or 4 reloads (stuck case removers are all over, and mine for 30-06 works well). If you're used to 223 Rem or 30-30 they really kick, if you shoot hot 45-70's, then they seem pretty mild. Recoil is kind of subjective. Ivan

Why would Iraqi ammo be marked with Farsi symbols? Are you sure it isn't Iranian?

Iraq may have captured some from Iran in their wars.

Frankly, I wouldn't use any ammo made in either nation.

 

[2152hq]

Iraqi contract No1MkIII SMLE rifles made by BSA in the 1920's are marked on the knox form of the bbl with a Triangle and what appears to be a 2 or a backwards S inside of it. The symbol is for Iraq ownership.

I don't know in what proper language or wording the symbol actually says, But it will be found on all of the Iraq contract SMLE's
Perhaps the triangle on the ammunition denotes Iraqi mfg also. Just a guess of course.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Those are the symbols that are on my ammo. As to quality; It has performed as well as any British ammo. The English snipers of WWII prefered Winchester when the could get it. I have a few rounds of WCC 44 ball and some specialty rounds in my collection. But all my reloading was with 70's/80's commercial brass. My Iraqi ammo has cordite type powder, so I figured it was made on contract in England. It also has the typical huge Berdan primer. I have a captured (ca 2003) book published by the Iraqi Arms Department but all it shows in small arms ammo is crates of 7.62x39 and 9x19 Parabellum of unknown manufacture. They didn't claim to produce it! Ivan