Selling Firearms into the State of California – Why Not!!

[bigl1911]

Years ago a police chief from a town in California wanted to buy an approved auto that I had on Gun Broker, my local FFL refused to ship to the state as retribution for there onerous gun laws. Was a real problem until I spoke with the receiving FFL a California gun shop which agreed to accept a direct shipment from me. Bottom line is the local shop made nothing and lost a customer.

Thanks Leonard.. I'm sure your buyer was very happy to receive his gun. Almost every C/R handgun I have purchased has been imported into the State. Almost every one with only a few exceptions (those being sold by a business - gun store) were sent by private party directly to my LGS. I had one person go to five LGS all refusing to ship to Cali. Handejector pointed out how easy it is in reality to ship a gun to California as an FFL - in essence 5 minutes more effort. Is the retribution clearly aimed at us the gun enthusiast in The Golden State? Steelslaver states it is a distrust of our state and the rule and regulations.. I don't blame him for feeling this either but the fact exists we here like you there we all face the same challenges. Not feeding the starving because they should have food is not the way to go in my opinion. SRV states that some dealers don't want to be in the California "system".. I can't argue this either since people have the right to do business as they please and with whomever they please. However I think Leonard is right - It is more about retribution.. Glowe - Thinks Cali is all about case law and the extension of what the governing bodies are subversively trying to accomplish insofar as taking away freedom and our 2nd amendment rights (hope I got that right!)... I don't doubt this for a minute.. The fact is we have a default gun registration in play, the roster is nothing more than a ban and the 30 day wait is about limiting guns in the community. It is clear plain and simple. Microstamping... This is stupid beyond subversive and strictly political stupidity and political posturing in my opinion. The question one has to ask is do you in the "free states" turn a cold cheek or do you support us? You have the right to make the choice after all it is a free country or at least it should be. Maybe part of this has to do with how far we as individuals feel the 2nd extends.. California at this point being the furthest extreme. Should we have the right under the 2nd to just hand a firearm over to anyone without some checks and balances? Way beyond my pay grade... Certainly Cali says no and goes beyond the extent of other states... A post on another thread stated the members limitation in (I think Montana) for number of firearms a person can purchase at one time was the gross vehicle weight rating of his pickup... Very funny really... Lobo thinks we are all going down at some point and your point was made as an intelligent individual not an extremist... I 'm not so sure it is about stupidity but more about hope for the best in man being the reason why we are not all prepared to the extreme.. I am new to the gun community and I take my practice as a shooter seriously. G-d forbid if someone comes into my house and threatens my family with harm.. I am far better protected now and much more capable of defending myself in the home than before I owned a firearm. Some think I as a gun owner have increased the chance of killing myself or another family member... I don't buy it and I feel much safer with my little 38 Airweight by my desk at home as I write this... A police officer I spoke with recently told me two very disturbing things: 1. People are victims mostly because they are oblivious to what is going on around them (I took this statement to mean be ready and prepared at all times). 2. In essence emergency 911 response time in certain areas within my community are 30 minutes. FTR - and this was clear the message was you are on your own son and you better pay attention. The Officer's clear statement, "Bad people do not come to nice neighborhoods do nice things and there just are not enough officers on the street in certain communities"... Off subject perhaps but it is all about our 2nd amendment rights and how we are a group of firearm owners deal with the state of affairs... Again I say for those of you refusing our business in Cali please reconsider...

 

[pace40]

I am one the despicable FFLs who does not currently sell to California. I jumped thru hoops years ago to get an FFL from the federal and state government. I conduct business in my state as legally required. I conduct busines thru shipping to 48 other states as legally required. That is to say that I ship firearms to a licensed FFL doing business in the state I am shipping to. It is his/her problem to legally transfer the the firearm to a resident of that state, just as I do when receiving out of state shipments for a resident of this state. It seems to me that for a state to require additional compliance is in direct conflict with the federal government's authority to regulate interstate commerce. But these laws keep occurring and court challenges are few and far between. Not my fault.

I am currently reading page 5 of the CFLC 56 page manual. If I get to the end, I may change my mind. But for now, sorry. I don't live there, I didn't vote em in, and I don't visit.

Participation in requirements that restrict, regulate, or provide for registration of firearm shipments provides adhoc acceptance. I choose not to accept it. I choose to accept the letter of 2A. and the constitution of the state I reside and do business in,

"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. Art. 1, § 21 (enacted 1790, art. IX, § 21)."

Unfortunately, the California constitution provides no such protection. Again, not my fault.

 

[steelslaver]

The state government of California is basically operating in a unconstitutional manner and its officials are guilty of treason. What part of INFRINGED don't they get. I refuse to go there or do anything that involves their government.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Not CA, but MA. There are TWO lists. You may think it's legal from looking at one, but the other says different. I have not kept up with it, because I already have more guns than I can regularly use, but if there is something I want that I can't get, I either figure out how, or blame MA voters and legislators, not out-of-state folks who are just trying to stay out of trouble, and don't have more time than I do to try to find out the law (as if abiding by the law were always sufficient to staying out of trouble).

 

[b_san]

To be honest, If I have a gun to sell I'd sell to anyone (legally) that pays what I want to sell it for and I'll buy from anyone (again legally) that prices their items for what I want to pay. As long as the buyer has a CA FFL that will accept a shipment from me directly without a hassle and the buyer pays the shipping fee I'd have to pay to ship Next Day since my LGS won't jump through the hoops (and I dont expect them to) then no worries here.

 

[bigl1911]

To be honest, If I have a gun to sell I'd sell to anyone (legally) that pays what I want to sell it for and I'll buy from anyone (again legally) that prices their items for what I want to pay. As long as the buyer has a CA FFL that will accept a shipment from me directly without a hassle and the buyer pays the shipping fee I'd have to pay to ship Next Day since my LGS won't jump through the hoops (and I dont expect them to) then no worries here.

Thank you..

 

[bigl1911]

Not CA, but MA. There are TWO lists. You may think it's legal from looking at one, but the other says different. I have not kept up with it, because I already have more guns than I can regularly use, but if there is something I want that I can't get, I either figure out how, or blame MA voters and legislators, not out-of-state folks who are just trying to stay out of trouble, and don't have more time than I do to try to find out the law (as if abiding by the law were always sufficient to staying out of trouble).

Exactly!!! I go through amazing things to get my guns. It is amazing but I do so because it is my legal right and this is my way of saying no! I had to apply for a C/R and COE to keep it rolling but then again it appears I am now a collector anyway. Yes, it is some voters and legislators but the people have a say and fact is at times legislators run wild. This is true in all States. California has a tendency with guns in recent years to be difficult but it is not impossible. In other areas we have a very good sense of fairness but not all areas. Also, I have to say as much as I love my gun collection not leaving the State over this one thing. I don't run.. The way I deal with it is by purchasing another handgun!!! And I do regularly... Freedom is not a G-d given right - not around these parts. It has to be earned... Moving to a "Free State" isn't going to cut it. I figure we deal with it one step at a time starting with educating those that do not understand. There are those that hate us (gun owners). That is there right too but when they try to take that right away we need to stand firm not run. There is no point talking with them the extremists, but again I will say support your fellow gun enthusiast by selling and export to us in California!!! Those of you that do not I again say reconsider....

 

[CDROBERTS]

Y'all might be better advised to get your shop in order and then keep it that way, rather than complain about how badly you are treated by the free market.
Or move to a free state.

Can you refresh my memory on who won Maine in 08 again?

I forgot.

Move? If everyone who is a coward moves, who will be left to fight?

I can see YOUR stance on what to do when something hard comes along.

Maybe the forefathers should have just voted with their feet and moved to another Country.

"The British are coming, The British are coming"! Quick, lets move to a free state, rather than make ALL States free!

Yes, I think Thomas Jefferson, Sam Adams, and George Washington would tell you today to vote with your feet like they did.

Your kind is part of this Country's problem.

No offense though.

 

[CDROBERTS]

People are just plain ignorant about NY guns laws AND NYer's. The misinformation and drama I read on this forum regarding anything NY, is quite stunning.

You've got that right.

Wait'll it comes to a neighborhood near them.

Oh wait...

It CAN'T happen THERE.

Forgive me.

P.S.- I ship guns to California AND New York. In Fact, I would RATHER ship there just to make a point.
Shipping to Cali takes all of about 20 minutes more, and only half a brain. So it works just fine for me.
BIGL1911 I'll help the cause of California. Some of us here care about EVERYONE and ALL State's issues as related to the second.

 

[pace40]

Update

As requested by the OP, I am in the process of reconsidering my position on California shipments. I have finished reviewing the CFLC manual begun in the post above and have submitted some questions to my attorney and asked him for a review regarding any increased risk brought about by CA Penal Code Sections 12072 - 12083 involved in this process.

I am doing this because I hold the US Constitution dear and feel the CA shipment rules are a blatant attack. However, to be clear, if counsel suggests that I expose myself to a greater legal risk than my business currently absorbs, I will balk whether anyone understands or not.

The OPs opening and subsequent comments were compelling enough for my to not just say no anymore and to complete a thorough review, which I am doing. I cannot, however, guarantee the outcome.

 

[bigl1911]

You've got that right.

Wait'll it comes to a neighborhood near them.

Oh wait...

It CAN'T happen THERE.

Forgive me.

P.S.- I ship guns to California AND New York. In Fact, I would RATHER ship there just to make a point.
Shipping to Cali takes all of about 20 minutes more, and only half a brain. So it works just fine for me.
BIGL1911 I'll help the cause of California. Some of us here care about EVERYONE and ALL State's issues as related to the second.

Thanks CD.. Very much appreciated....

 

[bigl1911]

As requested by the OP, I am in the process of reconsidering my position on California shipments. I have finished reviewing the CFLC manual begun in the post above and have submitted some questions to my attorney and asked him for a review regarding any increased risk brought about by CA Penal Code Sections 12072 - 12083 involved in this process.

I am doing this because I hold the US Constitution dear and feel the CA shipment rules are a blatant attack. However, to be clear, if counsel suggests that I expose myself to a greater legal risk than my business currently absorbs, I will balk whether anyone understands or not.

The OPs opening and subsequent comments were compelling enough for my to not just say no anymore and to complete a thorough review, which I am doing. I cannot, however, guarantee the outcome.

Pace - I very much appreciate you putting forth the effort.. I am also very interested to hear the outcome of your research... Thanks...

 

[CDROBERTS]

As requested by the OP, I am in the process of reconsidering my position on California shipments. I have finished reviewing the CFLC manual begun in the post above and have submitted some questions to my attorney and asked him for a review regarding any increased risk brought about by CA Penal Code Sections 12072 - 12083 involved in this process.

I am doing this because I hold the US Constitution dear and feel the CA shipment rules are a blatant attack. However, to be clear, if counsel suggests that I expose myself to a greater legal risk than my business currently absorbs, I will balk whether anyone understands or not.

The OPs opening and subsequent comments were compelling enough for my to not just say no anymore and to complete a thorough review, which I am doing. I cannot, however, guarantee the outcome.

Good for you. Thanks. ( and I am not from Cali)
Please let us know how this goes for you. I do not forsee any legal problems for you.

People like YOU will help EVERYONE. People like you ( and all of us that choose to take the lead) are what is NEEDED to fight this.

Not the "cut and run" types.

Thanks again and keep us posted!

And if you have a website you can forward, I would gladly buy from you over another!

 

[glowe]

One thing I know for sure is that I will not be persuaded by bullying, personal attacks, or name calling. I do not think that is what bigl1911 should support either. The 2nd Amendment is supposedly for all, but when a state tramples the law and are not held to account by the residents of those states, do not expect me to take part in supporting those illegal rlaws and egulations. That is my stand and do not ask you to agree, but rather acknowledge my right to have a different opinion than yours.

I said it before and I will say it again, personal attacks and those who feel the need to espouse them have no place here!

. . . cut and run type of guys as apparently you are. . .

. . . Move? If everyone who is a coward moves, who will be left to fight? . . .

. . . I can see YOUR stance on what to do when something hard comes along. . .

. . . Shipping to Cali takes all of about 20 minutes more, and only half a brain. . .

. . . Not the "cut and run" types. . .

. . . by the way is that y'all a southern maine accent? . . .

. . . might want to right your own ship there.. . .

Just plain sad

 

[Uglyducky]

As a CALI resident an 03 FFL holder, a licensed mental health professional AND a gun enthusiast I have greatly enjoyed the thread that my komrad bigl started. He's a good dude and way smarter than I am. What I can say is this - TWO of the dozens of handguns I own are actually on the CA handgun roster. CA does make you jump through WAAAAYYY too many hoops and, if you're smart enough and take the time, there are LEGAL ways around most of the nonsense. You see, no handgun is "illegal" in CA - many just can't be imported for sale in their regular configuration. Many dealers and manufacturers will still overlook this and send a handgun to CALI knowing it must be rendered to a "single shot" configuration and then DROS'd. We appreciate this latitude very much. It is the SOLE responsibility of the receiving FFL not the sender to ensure compliance since it is a BS "state law". If it's not kosher, it gets sent back and then you have my money and your gun. I always tell people if that actually happens, you keep both.

That being said, the idea that it's "not my problem" or "not in my backyard" is really scary to me. Division is the best possible outcome for those that are outnumbered and need a lack of solidarity to implement their tyranny. I am an American gun-owner first and foremost. I will never give up on voting and fighting to peacefully maintain and enjoy my rights in this country on the local, state, and federal level. I really believe this issue needs to be seen for the cancer that it is. Once a foothold is had, you think other states aren't going to follow suit? Just ask NY and MA. I for one am glad Ruger and Smith left CA. I hope every big manufacturer does and soon! That way these laws will be seen for exactly what they are, illegal restrictions.

I wish you all health, safe shooting, and freedom. I sure hope you wish it back regardless of where I choose to hang my hat in this great nation.

 

[glowe]

. . the idea that it's "not my problem" or "not in my backyard" is really scary to me. . . I for one am glad Ruger and Smith left CA. I hope every big manufacturer does and soon!

Good comments, but I am in a quandry as to the difference between companies leaving CA and sellers leaving the marketplace in CA? You hint that one is bad and one is good??

Also, lets all proudly display our NRA membership icons on this forum!!!!! If you are not a member, please join. There is no better place to put your money than the only organization that has a chance to fight for our freedom.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I did not see a Ruger Single Six on the roster but it mentions on the site certain single action revolvers may be exempt. Is this legal to ship to people in California?

James

 

[Uglyducky]

I did not see a Ruger Single Six on the roster but it mentions on the site certain single action revolvers may be exempt. Is this legal to ship to people in California?

James

Any single action revolver is legal aka "safety approved"

 

[Uglyducky]

Good comments, but I am in a quandry as to the difference between companies leaving CA and sellers leaving the marketplace in CA? You hint that one is bad and one is good??

Also, lets all proudly display our NRA membership icons on this forum!!!!! If you are not a member, please join. There is no better place to put your money than the only organization that has a chance to fight for our freedom.

I would say there is a big difference in that the resounding message being sent by large firearms companies not playing ball with these silly rules will only expose the "laws" for what they are. Conversely, my life and livelihood are here in CA and those are things of meaning to me. I do my state and our 2a rights struggle no good if I leave. I believe big firearms manufacturers leaving will do us good. But I'm not the smartest guy in the world, just ask my exes.

 

[CDROBERTS]

I would say there is a big difference in that the resounding message being sent by large firearms companies not playing ball with these silly rules will only expose the "laws" for what they are. Conversely, my life and livelihood are here in CA and those are things of meaning to me. I do my state and our 2a rights struggle no good if I leave. I believe big firearms manufacturers leaving will do us good. But I'm not the smartest guy in the world, just ask my exes.

No, see, you have it all wrong. Just listen to the guy who said to cut a check to the NRA and let THEM do your fighting FOR you.
You should not have to fight for your OWN rights. What's wrong with you?

Since you can't "vote with your feet".............

Cut that check!
Let others do your fighting.

That' what they all did in 1775, right?