sound wave
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Oh yeah, I read that it is now at the 4:30 instead of the 5:00. Have you by chance had the opportunity to compare the two? Does it make much of a difference?
Sights
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sound wave
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Vinney47
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Co-witnessing means both iron sights and the red dot sight are visible when aiming down the rifle. It means that both sights "witness" the target, hence "co-witness". Absolute co-witness means the dot lines up perfectly with the iron sights when looking through the red dot sight. Lower 1/3 co-witness means the red dot sight is mounted slightly higher, with the iron sights only visible in the lower 1/3 of the view through the red dot sight. Illustrated below.
ChattanoogaPhil
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Have you used or looked through a 1x red dot?
I'll proceed as if you have not. Go to a gun store and look through a couple. An EOTech with a small 1moa dot and something else with a 3-5moa dot will give you a good idea. Use your long distance corrective eyewear and look at something as far away in the store as you can or ask to look at it outside. Do not try to focus on the dot but rather what you are viewing through the optic. Or maybe see different optics at your gun range...
Using one eye with a red dot is ok. You just don't get unlimited field of view with one eye closed but considering your eyes the overriding factor is that you're comfortable and enjoy shooting. You may find that your eyes don't agree with a 1x red dot and it's a blurry streaking cluster of grapes mess. If so, there are low power 1-4x scopes with side focus that may be worth considering and forget the irons.
It sounds like I should possibly look at scopes also. What are examples of low power 1-4x scopes? I have looked through a scope that a family member had and I had a really difficult time with that.
It also sounds like I want 1/3 co-witness. I'm really not comfortable getting a primary arms dot because from what I can tell they are not shockproof. If I were to get a PA dot it would probably be the fixed base micro dot, MD-06L removable base or micro dot classic w/removable base. Everything else looks really too heavy. Pros/cons of those three dots?
It also sounds like I want 1/3 co-witness. I'm really not comfortable getting a primary arms dot because from what I can tell they are not shockproof. If I were to get a PA dot it would probably be the fixed base micro dot, MD-06L removable base or micro dot classic w/removable base. Everything else looks really too heavy. Pros/cons of those three dots?
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headcase650
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Primary arms are gtg, they can take a beating. The problem with red dots is if you have astigmatism in your right eye they will look funny, grapes, squiggly for example. Reflex or holosights dont suffer the same problems. I had a pretty bad astigmatism before lasik. Most red dots the dot looked fuzzy not a sharp round dot. I had a bushnell holosight and it looked perfect. Although true reflex holographic sights are usually more expensive. Eotech, trijicon makes a few. Used first or secong gen Bushnell holosights can be found for good prices these days and are actually pretty good sights.
Will they look like that even though I have corrective glasses?
headcase650
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Depends on how bad your astigmatism is and how well its corrected with your glasses. I would look through some first before buying. When you do have them mounted to a rifle and shoulder it. When I would pick up a sight and just look through it its would look okay with glasses but just just having the sight in my hand was misleading because I was looking straight through my glasses. Having it on the rifle with your cheek on the stock you'll be looking through your glasses at an angle and will get a different result. Just make sure you look through some before you buy.
Sounds like something I will have to do. I don't know if I can look through one on a rifle itself though. I'm pretty sure I want the Primary Arms micro dot MD60L and Magpul flip up sights at 1/3rd co-witness. Not sure as to what riser I want though.
headcase650
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The MD-08 is the newest version, its only 10 more and comes with the killflash. Can bundle it with the AD QD mount.
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Micro-Dot-With-Kill-Flash-ADT1-B-p/md08adt1-10bundle.htm
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-Arms-Micro-Dot-With-Kill-Flash-ADT1-B-p/md08adt1-10bundle.htm
ChattanoogaPhil
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Primary Arms Micro Dot Gen 3 Toss/Drop Fun - YouTube
Get the removable base md06. If you want lower 1/3 get the inexpensive PA riser and don't play with the QD cuz it's junk. Forget the kill flash.
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That will be the plan. Only worry is how my eyes will work with the red dot. I am hopefully going be looking at some red dots next Saturday but probably not any PAs. It won't be a PA but hopefully it will be similar. If the only issue is a blurry dot maybe it is something I could learn to deal with?
ChattanoogaPhil
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When you go Saturday to see if your vision agrees with a 1x red dot, don't worry about brand. What you want to test is different size dots. You should definitely take a look at the smallest dot, 1moa, and that will be on an EOTech. And see some some 3-5moa size dots. The PA Microdot is 3moa. Be sure to be wearing your long distance glasses. My guess is you'll probably prefer a 1-4x scope. Happy optics hunting.
headcase650
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The eotech will not give the same results as a red dot. Look through one and consider buying one but don't use the results of the eotech to judge how your eyes will see a red dot, they are two different technologies. Eotech is a holographic sight, it projects lasers off a mirror onto a reticule etched holographic lens sandwiched between glass in the sight window that projects the reticule out in mid air in front of your view as if it was floating. Red dots don't work the same and use an emitter in a tube, light goes from the emitter to the lens to your eye. With my astigmatism an eotech looked perfect with or without corrective lenses, red dots looked fuzzy without my glasses or when looking through my glasses at an angle.
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trebor127
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buy once 
buy the best 
EoTech
Keith
buy the best EoTech
Keith
As far as the scope what brand should I look for or can I get one with the PA red dot? I have single lenses so no bifocals. Would that make a difference? I see a PA magnifier so would that be what I want?
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ChattanoogaPhil
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There are so many out there with tons of different reticles from illuminated to simple crosshairs it's difficult to recommend. If I wanted a 1-4x I would stay in the $200 and up category.
I'm not an eye expert I can only tell you what I hear folks complain about most often. And folks with eye issues tend to complain a lot about 1x red dot.... everything from comet tails to a clusters of grapes. You'll have to see for yourself.
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And by the way, here's what the EOTech manufacturer has to say about astigmatisms and eye issues with their sight. Also notice the comments about the size of the dot. As suggested earlier, take a look at different size dots.
Product FAQs
Why is my center dot not round?
Not everyone sees the center dot as a circle or sphere. If your dot does not appear to be perfectly round, the distortion may be caused by the way that your eye perceives the dot, rather than by some mechanical defect. Due to differences in the lenses in different individuals' eyes, round objects that subtend areas near 3 minutes of angle may appear distorted in a variety of ways depending on the individual and other environmental influences. Some may see the center dot like a hub of a bicycle wheel with spokes. If you see this in your sight, look closely at the dot and rotate the sight. If the spokes do not move, it is just how your eye perceives this dot. You can dim the sight and this may be eliminated.
My circle is fuzzy/hazy. Why is this?
That question about our reticle is common. What people usually see on-line or in advertisements are graphic representations of the reticle. What you are seeing is likely normal. The outer circle of the reticle is made up of hundreds of pixels (small dots that form together to make a larger image). This pixilation is key to being able to see the hologram properly, and is inherent in the technology. You should see the center dot as a single MOA.
A couple things might help make the image appear more distinct:
• If you see the image blurry, fuzzy, distorted, having a double image, or having a 'starburst' effect, this usually means the brightness intensity level is up too high for the lighting conditions you're using it in. Dim down the brightness until the reticle is slightly see-through. The outer circle is designed as your reference to center, and acts similar to a ghost ring.
• The reticle is projected out to your target plane. If you pick up a target that is very close (like a photo on the wall), your eyes might not focus properly on the image. Pick up sight pictures 25 to 30 yards out until you become accustomed to the sight. Try them at different eye reliefs, and certainly try these things once the sight is mounted on a weapon.
• If you require corrective lenses (glasses or contacts) to see things clearly at a distance, you will need them to see the reticle clearly. Remember, the reticle is actually projected out to your target plane, so you will see it like anything else at that distance. Also, if you have astigmatism or use bifocals, you may see the image less distinctly.
• Use the sight outdoors, and if possible at the range. Actually acquiring targets with the sight will help your eyes focus properly on the reticle.
Product FAQs | L-3 EOTech - Holographic Weapons Systems
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ChattanoogaPhil
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I'd pass on the magnifier.
These style optics are popular for low power fixed compact and variable magnification on AR platforms. There are a lot optics that fall into these two basic categories (many appear near identical) from various manufactures and sellers. Here are two that Burris offers with the AR in mind. Primary Arms also makes two optics similar to the below.
Another consideration is weight. A 1x red dot can weigh just a few ounces... but once you get into magnified optics you're looking at adding considerable more weight to your rifle.
1-4x Variable
3x Fixed Compact
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