Looking out for your neighbor being victimized falls a little short of vigilantism. We weren't there. The article could be jacked up. Bottom line is I'm giving a concerned citizens every benefit of the doubt I can reasonably muster. I'll do the same for you if you're ever in a extremely stressful and fast paced event with some no good criminals.
Should he be charged?
- Thread starter vigil617
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vigil617
US Veteran
Virgil 617;
Try to play nice with others...we try to be civilized to one another on this forum. Jimmy Hoffa had a good line when questioned - "I'll answer any question you want - you just gotta live with the answer". Of course, he went missing sometime after that.
And, no I don't know where he is, but I do know your looking for a specific, tailored answer that you probably won't get based on the info provided. I do know once you pull that weapon out of the holster and use it - your next move is to contact a C.D. attorney.asap.
I also know I am not John Wayne riding in. The only time my weapon is coming out of concealment is if me or my family is in a life threatening situation.
Just one correction to your post, Engine: No, I am not looking for a specific, tailored answer. I expressed my opinion, others have expressed theirs, and as you can see, I have "liked" practically every reply to my post (as is my practice when I start a thread) to show that I appreciate the response.
I'm playing nice. You would know if I were not, believe me.
I don't do that here.....I value a good, spirited, civil discussion, as I learn a lot from them. All we have to go on about the situation is what has been reported, so I don't understand why some folks still insist on taking me to task for presenting a situation as it has been presented to me, and simply asking for opinions about it. (I know you aren't doing that, Engine; it's just that this was the reason for my plea (preceded by "please") for posters to refrain from stating the obvious that "we weren't there" and "we don't know all the facts.")
Thanks for your reply, sir.
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ColbyBruce
Member
If criminals knew they would be dealt with severely and immediately when caught in the act perhaps there would be fewer criminals. If the general public were not so pansified they refused to attempt to protect what is theirs, human and material; and were willing to stick up for those that did, we would likely not be discussing this.
We have far too many laws that differ greatly from place to place, state to state. We have judges that will take the same law and interpret it differently. The average law abiding citizen has no rights as a victim, especially compared to a criminal after they are arrested.
Our jails and prisons are full, and paid for by the struggling US taxpayer, who was also paying for the monthly check the sorry criminal was drawing prior to their incarceration. I believe in the death penalty, and I am O.K. with it being carried out in the street if necessary at that moment.
I do not think of it as vigilantism, it is simply garbage disposal.
We have far too many laws that differ greatly from place to place, state to state. We have judges that will take the same law and interpret it differently. The average law abiding citizen has no rights as a victim, especially compared to a criminal after they are arrested.
Our jails and prisons are full, and paid for by the struggling US taxpayer, who was also paying for the monthly check the sorry criminal was drawing prior to their incarceration. I believe in the death penalty, and I am O.K. with it being carried out in the street if necessary at that moment.
I do not think of it as vigilantism, it is simply garbage disposal.
At the risk of thread drift, that is exactly how the founding fathers intended for states' rights to play out . . . I for one am thankful that I can choose to live where I want, in part based upon the laws of the state.
ColbyBruce
Member
As our founding fathers were committing treason as they sat together drafting our countries Bill of Rights and Constitution, they probably had a pistol or two stuck in their belts and a rifle or musket leaning against the wall within reach. They meant for us to be safe from tyranny, both foreign and domestic.
TexasArmed
Member
I too live in a castle doctrine state, and protection of one's property during the night time is allowed in Texas Law. So
when it comes to my property I will protect it. I am not a part
of a neighborhood watch and I would not intervene to stop a
burglary in progress on another person's property.
When we do protect our property and when it is legal we do
not call it vigilante law, but is defined in section 9.42 of the
Texas Statutes. Protecting me and my property is my
responsibility. It is rare that police can arrive to apprehend
a burglar. It does not deputize me to stop a burglary or a felony on another's property although we do have cases where
folks watch each other's property. If I wanted to be a police
officer or a security guard, I would be getting paid for it, not
volunteering for hazardous duty.
Cal44
Member
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
If I could give colby bruce 10 stars or likes I would have. We think alike and I was about to post similar.
Yes, for a mans own personal and his familys welfare he should do as most here say, observe and report. Thats the very first thing the state tried to drum in our heads when they first came out with "Guard school" in california to get our state blessed cards.
Before I get farther in this I will say at the top that my problem with the incident is mostly there could have been some chance that the guys shot at in the car were legit. They probley weren't but I think the neighbor shooter couldnt have known that for certain.
Now I am through backpedaling on that. Lets say somehow unlike this incident the neighbor DID know for sure they were thieves. The answer here is most but colby bruce and me would agree the "smart" thing to do is again, observe and report. Yes, when a man has a family that depends on him that would be smart.
This country is in the sick shape it is in is mainly because of this PC thinking. The criminals are used to weak laws, judges and also depend on the majority of the PC thinking public. If they do have a very small piece of moral upbringing left they probley excuse their thefts to, "I aint hurting anyone, they should have insurance" etc. We are in the sad shape we are in because the odds of a burglar getting much of a penalty if caught are small and the reward is greater than a couple months if any, in the hoosegow. Besides they dont have to worry about food and medical in the jug. As a country we are getting what we deserve.
Yes, for a mans own personal and his familys welfare he should do as most here say, observe and report. Thats the very first thing the state tried to drum in our heads when they first came out with "Guard school" in california to get our state blessed cards.
Before I get farther in this I will say at the top that my problem with the incident is mostly there could have been some chance that the guys shot at in the car were legit. They probley weren't but I think the neighbor shooter couldnt have known that for certain.
Now I am through backpedaling on that. Lets say somehow unlike this incident the neighbor DID know for sure they were thieves. The answer here is most but colby bruce and me would agree the "smart" thing to do is again, observe and report. Yes, when a man has a family that depends on him that would be smart.
This country is in the sick shape it is in is mainly because of this PC thinking. The criminals are used to weak laws, judges and also depend on the majority of the PC thinking public. If they do have a very small piece of moral upbringing left they probley excuse their thefts to, "I aint hurting anyone, they should have insurance" etc. We are in the sad shape we are in because the odds of a burglar getting much of a penalty if caught are small and the reward is greater than a couple months if any, in the hoosegow. Besides they dont have to worry about food and medical in the jug. As a country we are getting what we deserve.
if u read the artical the thief pulled a gun on the good neighbor like Troy would say shoot em shoot em
Lakeland Police Department's arrest rate for burglaries was 6% in 2013. Other agencies are around 25%. Most of those are probably dropped or plead out to trivial charges. My wife was on a jury recently. Said the other jurors were imbeciles. The juries won't even convict these guys. Criminals pretty much have free rein to steal your stuff.
Lakeland Police Arrest Rate Drops in 2013 | TheLedger.com
Lakeland Police Arrest Rate Drops in 2013 | TheLedger.com
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vigil617
US Veteran
Mark, one of the thieves did pull a gun during the encounter, after the neighbor had already drawn, brandished, and cocked his handgun. The neighbor sensibly took cover when the other guy drew his weapon, probably because he did not have a good shot to take, or possibly because he was just being prudent by doing so. The shots taken by the shooter were at the fleeing car, though, which was dangerous and irresponsible.
I find it interesting that the respondents from Texas mention that protection of property (one's own) is upheld by statute in that state. It's different most other places, including North Carolina, where this incident took place. As has also been pointed out here, there is nothing of a material nature that is worth shooting someone over. That's what is at the heart of this whole situation, I think: the fact that the neighbor took his good intentions to an unacceptable extreme. There are those who applaud his act; that's their right, and opinion. Mine is different.
I would not want any of my neighbors, if my house was being burglarized, to take it upon himself to do what the neighbor in this instance did. I hate thieves, but I prefer they be incarcerated, especially since the laws of this state do not provide for capital punishment for burglary -- but also as a realistic matter that, again, nothing material is worth the life of a human being, no matter what a scumbag that human being is.
And I guess it should go without saying, that "Troy" (Landry) is talking about alligators, not humans.
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Waywatcher
Member
The civilian did the right thing.
If the laws don't reflect this, then the laws are wrong.
The consequences of charging the defender, to both him and society-at-large, would be awful. It would encourage and incentivize helplessness and dependence, and punish a good neighbor.
If the laws don't reflect this, then the laws are wrong.
The consequences of charging the defender, to both him and society-at-large, would be awful. It would encourage and incentivize helplessness and dependence, and punish a good neighbor.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I'm curious, is it the consensus of those here that a person should just shoot a suspected criminal?
Another thing. Bobby said he hit the car 8 times. Does anyone here belive that?
Another thing. Bobby said he hit the car 8 times. Does anyone here belive that?
I'm not sure how that addresses the issue that one of the biggest arguments in those days was the retention of states rights . . . .
Are you saying criminals have a right to self defense during the commission of a crime?
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vigil617
US Veteran
Rastoff, Bobby did say that, but I think it is significant that he said he saw on the driver's side rear panel where one of his bullets struck the car. That's the only specific hit that he mentioned. I doubt all eight struck the car, myself.
Wonder where they landed, then . . .
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vigil617
US Veteran
That is an interesting question, hatt.
My point was that Bobby, the neighbor, was the one who introduced a firearm into the situation first. I'm sure the answer to your question is more complex than you might think. I believe that our state's laws address this issue, but I'm going to have to look it up and get back to you, via this thread. Stay tuned.
You don't expect citizens to confront criminals unarmed. Of course he introduced a firearm. Had he not had a gun he would probably be dead. Instead he let loose some lead and the perps hightailed it out of there. 'Merica
Autococker07
US Veteran
Cannot say it better than that!
While I think the shooter may have made some errors (based on my limited knowledge of events), I think without criminal intent, a charge would be counter productive.
If a charge was levied, I would hope the judge would make the punishment a sensible one (like mandatory gunsite classes, etc).
As a side note I did notice that the countryside was quite rural.... He may have been able to let his shots fly in a safe direction that is unknown to us...... and he may have been threatened from the fleeing auto..... tough to say....
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