Is there something in the water in Texas?....

[PowerSurge]

I come from NY and live in FL....both of which are non-OC states.

But here's my opinion on open carry, from the point of view of someone inside Walgreens....

If I were to see someone open carrying in a public place, with say, a 1911 in a holster, and going about their business, I would not be concerned. Someone intending to do harm is not likely to have a pricey firearm, no have it in a holster. Most likely they obtained the cheapest gun they could get and it's probably going to be hidden.

But there is ZERO reason to be walking around public with a long gun. Zero. Nada. None. Someone walking into Walgreens with an AR doesn't say "hey, they open carry", it says "hey, that guy's wife just left him and he just lost his job and he picked Walgreens to make his last stand".

The people using long guns trying to "make a point" on OC, are just proving that they don't really understand the concept in the first place and SHOULDN'T be open carrying.

 

[cyphertext]

TexasArmed, sorry, my "flaunt it" really wasn't directed at you, I went off on a tangent... the way I wrote it, I see how you took it that way. If it were the other way around, I would have as well. I changed gears in my mind, but not very well with the words on paper.

I think you and I are on the same page. I agree that the signage is a requirement. And you are correct that you can legally carry there, and I am not criticizing you for doing so. I myself have walked past many signs that do not meet the statutory requirement. I'm not going to ask if CC is allowed if I come up to an establishment that is not posted.

Phil is right, I do fear that we have a chance to lose more... There aren't that many businesses that are legally posted here, but I fear that may change as more and more businesses are forced to make public statements due to some in the OC movement.

 

[cyphertext]

More importantly, what's up with that hat?

Sometimes, I jest shake my head in dis-belief at the attire some folks wear in public.

Jest sad.


All My Best,
Dave


God Bless Texas

Hook em Horns


.

Maybe you hit on something... Most of the time when I get fired up against OC, it involves this guy... Maybe it isn't the gun that bothers me, but that stupid hat!

 

[OFT II]

The hat looks stupid because of what's under it.

 

[keith44spl]

Maybe you hit on something... Most of the time when I get fired up against OC, it involves this guy... Maybe it isn't the gun that bothers me, but that stupid hat!

Cyphertext,

I been studying about have a class for those that wish to open carry.........


Post taken from an old thread,

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/155545-men-dont-have-accessorize-do-we.html

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for all the fashion tips!
Your valued input is most appreciated in my time of need.

Got a 'thing' to go to Friday nite.
Wife requested that I be on my best behavior.

I don't want a repeat of my last fashion Fo'pha, so as old Jack Knife would say, "Look sharp, feel sharp, ect, ect…"

Gotta lose the tie tac, ditched the striped tie, it was a little thread bare anyway, I guess.

Canned the cuff links. I guess when the nickel wears off'n them and the brass is over taken 'em…Well they ain't really pinto.
French cuffs just ain't me anyways.

Upon reflection I guess the floral holster does clashes with a basket weave belt…

Broke clip on IWB holster trying to make another boot hideout…Just have to use ankle rig instead, won't need reload for wheelgun.

Blue suit had a mustard stain from where I don't remember, so the brown boots are out.
Although that would have look great with that there golden fiddlebacked Desert Eagle.

Only got one dress hat…Handmade natural silverbelly beaver, so can't do nothing about that. ~Smiley~

So far this is the deal fer Friday nite.
I don't want to mess this up.

It's her birthday…

Su Amigo,
Dave


God Bless Texas

Hook em Horns

 

[JohnSW]

It appears many gun owners suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

To the contrary, some gun owners suffer from Extremism Syndrome.

 

[Protected One]

And if you're carring an AR platform rifle down the street, are you simply carrying it, or are you "brandishing" it?

And frankly, there's always the chance that someone...cop or civilian...will shoot you, simply because they don't know your intentions, they don't know why you're carrying a Mossberg 930SPX into Walgreen's.

Just carrying it is not brandishing. Brandishing is presenting the weapon in a "threatening" manner.

You left out the criminal who might shoot them to steal the AR because they can't buy one.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

So Phil, Hatt, et al, are these guys still fighting the good fight, or are they creating issues for all of us? .

Are they fighting the good fight? Of course they are! They're fighting for their 2A rights!

And they are doing so in a manner that is legal, non violent, and from what I gather in general good cheer. It's obviously getting attention, stirring discussion, and getting politicians and other gun rights group on record. Textbook activism.

Is activism controversial? Well sure it is, that's the point of activism. Does controversy always lean in the direction of the activist cause? Of course not-- controversial. Sure there's a shelf life to activism in any cycle. Has that been reached? Only those on the ground could answer that.

This is pretty simple stuff. According to the piece posted by LadyT, for the first time the Texas gun rights groups and NRA are working for OC and say it has a good chance of passing. Even Democrat gubernatorial candidate, Wendy Davis, has gone on the record that she is for OC. Do ya think this is happening because a bunch of handwringing gun owners are saying OC is unnecessary, rude, stupid, will scare everyone to death, and then lashing out at OC activist groups?

 

[M3Stuart]

I didn't read all the other responses.

I live here and carrying AR's into a Chili's or a Target is downright silly. Whatever point it is they are trying to make; I don't get it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A bit different than some of the brainwashing in the media.

Tulsa Chipotle Shows Moms Demand Action "Anti-Gun Bullies" the Door | The Truth About Guns

 

[Watchdog]

When you ignore a businesses request, and flaunt it, don't be surprised if it does, in fact, become a legally enforceable requirement.

Look at it another way. Businesses (Target, for example) don't have to "request" anything. All they have to do is post store rules at the entrances. Sort of like restaurants and their rule of "Shirt and Shoes Required", or banks that post signs telling customers they can't wear hoodies, sunglasses, or hats when conducting business inside.

Their business, their rules, no matter which state you live in. If someone wants to get technical about it, it already is a legally enforceable requirement.

It's just like this forum. You either play by the forum rules, or you don't get to play at all.

It doesn't get any more simple than that.

 

[eisenbird]

Hey look at me! I got a weapon on me!

I feel OC can be a threat to people not used to seeing this carry method in today's society, especially with the rising gun violence incidents occurring
in public places.
If I saw someone carry a long gun or pistol openly in my area, even when legal to do so, I would have reason to be concerned, feel uncomfortable and leave the area. Responsible people must respect others feelings and not scare them, including firearm owners.
When one wants to OC, go into the woods where folks would not feel uncomfortable, not in shopping centers or stores where OC can be construed as a threat.
CC carry is not a threat to anyone when carried properly. (not "printing")
Part of the responsibility of carrying a firearm is not to threaten others, and not to act like a jerk and "say"... look at me, I got a weapon on me.

 

[TexasArmed]

Look at it another way. Businesses (Target, for example) don't have to "request" anything. All they have to do is post store rules at the entrances. Sort of like restaurants and their rule of "Shirt and Shoes Required", or banks that post signs telling customers they can't wear hoodies, sunglasses, or hats when conducting business inside.

Their business, their rules, no matter which state you live in. If someone wants to get technical about it, it already is a legally enforceable requirement.

It's just like this forum. You either play by the forum rules, or you don't get to play at all.

It doesn't get any more simple than that.

Their rules are irrelevant in Texas unless they post the legally
required sign regarding Concealed carry. It can't get more simpler than that. A business can ask someone to leave but
cannot have them arrested unless they violated the legally required sign. I am aware that many other states require anyone to recognize even a gun buster sign. A business can
also ask them not to come back as well. How would they know whether a criminal is carrying or a permit holder. Do they run
background checks as you walk in? Do they strip search them?
I don't think so, unless its an airport.

 

[cyphertext]

Are they fighting the good fight? Of course they are! They're fighting for their 2A rights!

And they are doing so in a manner that is legal, non violent, and from what I gather in general good cheer. It's obviously getting attention, stirring discussion, and getting politicians and other gun rights group on record. Textbook activism.

Phil, you aren't here... you haven't seen them cuss out cops, or people who don't agree with them. General good cheer, no... they can't even enter into debate without name calling.

Is activism controversial? Well sure it is, that's the point of activism. Does controversy always lean in the direction of the activist cause? Of course not-- controversial. Sure there's a shelf life to activism in any cycle. Has that been reached? Only those on the ground could answer that.

The cause can be controversial, but the activism itself does not have to be. As I asked in the other thread, could the awareness not be met by wearing empty holsters? Would that have created such a negative image? Would people call the cops because someone is wearing an empty holster? Would businesses ask you to leave, or pass policies against empty holsters?

This is pretty simple stuff. According to the piece posted by LadyT, for the first time the Texas gun rights groups and NRA are working for OC and say it has a good chance of passing. Even Democrat gubernatorial candidate, Wendy Davis, has gone on the record that she is for OC. Do ya think this is happening because a bunch of handwringing gun owners are saying OC is unnecessary, rude, stupid, will scare everyone to death, and then lashing out at OC activist groups?

Wendy Davis went on record supporting gun rights after her campaign tanked... The NRA called the OC people weird... sure it was retracted, but it was put out there. TSRA has asked the OC movement to change tactics. The man who wrote the bill has even asked them to change as it is hurting his chances of gaining support... When the most prominent legislator that supports open carry says to knock it off, you should listen. We have been over this before.

 

[cyphertext]

A bit different than some of the brainwashing in the media.

Tulsa Chipotle Shows Moms Demand Action "Anti-Gun Bullies" the Door | The Truth About Guns

Both groups are in the wrong here. Chipotle doesn't want to be the center stage for their political grandstanding. The Moms were asked to leave for photographing other patrons... OKOCA only went there because they heard the Moms were going to be there.. why? What did they hope to gain? OC is legal in OK...

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Both groups are in the wrong here. Chipotle doesn't want to be the center stage for their political grandstanding. The Moms were asked to leave for photographing other patrons... OKOCA only went there because they heard the Moms were going to be there.. why? What did they hope to gain? OC is legal in OK...

The OC were invited to stay and given free drinks at Chipolte while the Moms anti-gun group was tossed out. Yet you want to argue rather than cheer. Whatever ...

Like I told you earlier, these Bloomberg Mama anti-gun groups will not stop. It has nothing to do if OC activists are protesting for legalization or if OC is already legal. They will never stop. They are the villains. You apparently think that these Bloomberg henchwomen are just opposition to OC activists trying to make OC legal. That's not the case. They are on a national anti-gun crusade. The sooner gun owners realize this the better. And when OC activists organize a rally, guess who shows up?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Cypher,

It's clear you don't believe that the OC groups have been successful in their activism. So let's hear it. Since most all gun owners in Texas apparently don't care about iegalizing open carry of handguns as you claim, and is just not needed, stupid and will only serve to terrify everyone, why do you think BOTH wannabe Texas governors, republican and democrat, have made it a point to go on record supporting OC? Is it because they think it will be a good political move to support terrifying mothers and their children with open carry? Or is it politically savvy to support that which few do and it's really not needed and stupid?

You lecture others here about not knowing anything about Texas politics. If this is such a non-issue among gun owners as you claim, and since it's not needed, stupid, and will only serve to terrify women and children, then why support it? Why can't these gubernatorial hopefuls just ignore it or say they are against it? Why is anyone even talking about it, eh? Any chance it might just have something to do with the OC guys making this a general 2A issue and shoving it in their face via media and stirring debate among the electorate?

And while you're at it.... Why are Texas gun rights groups supporting legalizing OC of handguns that gun owners don't want, think is stupid and will only serve to terrify women and children?

Have the activists been effective or are you wrong, or both?

 

[cyphertext]

Cypher,

It's clear you don't believe that the OC groups have been successful in their activism. So let's hear it. Since most all gun owners in Texas apparently don't care about iegalizing open carry of handguns as you claim, and is just not needed, stupid and will only serve to terrify everyone, why do you think BOTH wannabe Texas governors, republican and democrat, have made it a point to go on record supporting OC? Is it because they think it will be a good political move to support terrifying mothers and their children with open carry? Or is it politically savvy to support that which few do and it's really not needed and stupid?

You lecture others here about not knowing anything about Texas politics. If this is such a non-issue among gun owners as you claim, and since it's not needed, stupid, and will only serve to terrify women and children, then why support it? Why can't these gubernatorial hopefuls just ignore it or say they are against it? Why is anyone even talking about it, eh? Any chance it might just have something to do with the OC guys making this a general 2A issue and shoving it in their face via media and stirring debate among the electorate?

And while you're at it.... Why are Texas gun rights groups now supporting legalizing OC of handguns that gun owners don't want, think is stupid and will only serve to terrify women and children?

Have the activists been effective or are you wrong, or both?

Phil, many gun owners here in Texas, myself included, don't mind the OC of a handgun. Again, what we don't agree with, is the OC of a long gun into a private business, forcing that business to make a policy. I don't agree with openly carrying a black powder pistol into a private business who has made a public request for you not to bring a firearm into their business.

The candidates for governor both back it because we gun owners vote. Texas is currently a red state, so coming out for gun control is a non-starter. However, ask them what they think of the OC tactics of carrying the long gun into a private business. Ask them where they actually stand... Wendy Davis is about as much of a gun rights as Obama... She is using it to her political advantage. The last Democratic Gov lost her bid for re-election by threatening to veto the CC bill. We voterd her out, voted in Bush, and the rest is history.

Again, ask the two gentlemen who have been the biggest political supporters, George Lavender and Jerry Patterson. They both have asked them to stand down... why do you think that is?

From the article linked below...

"I have told the groups that I have talked to not to do this right now. I think it is more harmful. The only reason it wouldn't pass is if we do something stupid and attract bad publicity," Lavender told Texas Politics, emphasizing that open carry legislation appears to be a slam dunk in the 2015 session. "It's good legislation. This could be harmful in getting it passed. We're so close to getting it done. I would hate to see it damaged inadvertently." ...

... "I support open carry, unequivocally support open carry, there's a way to do these demonstrations that don't scare the **** out of people," he said.

Patterson, who had not read the NRA statement, added about the Texas open carry demonstrations: "In certain cases it's not helping. It's actually probably hurting."

Lavender and Patterson: Open Carry demonstrations could backfire - Texas Politics

Forgive me if I trust the opinion of the author of the bill over a bill over someone from Tenessee who has no say in a Texas matter...

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The candidates for governor both back it because we gun owners vote. Texas is currently a red state, so coming out for gun control is a non-starter.

So these earlier comments by you were for what? Just to see how big of a circle you could talk in? I'll concede that I can't follow the double-talk. Over and out. Cheers

Let's take a different approach, look at it by the numbers...

Texas has a population of 26.06 Million.

Per recent polls, it is estimated that between 35% to 44% of those folks own at least one firearm. Lets make it easy and call it 40%. That is 10.42 Million firearm owners.

Of those 10.42 Million firearm owners, 708,048 are active CHL holders, or 7%.

Of those 10.42 Million, OCT has 22,000 members,(I'll bump it up to 25,000 just in case they have added a few since the number was published)... or 0.002%

So, based on these numbers, it doesn't appear that carry rights in general are all that important to Texas gun owners, but with only .002% of gun owners actively joining the OCT movement, why would anyone expect TSRA to waste resources and cycles to actively push this?

It appears to me that Texas overall is fairly happy with our current state of affairs. And as a Texas voter, I have more say in this than the gentleman from Tennessee who referred to me as a "do-nothing disinterested critic".

 

[cyphertext]

So these earlier comments by you were for what? Just to see how big of a circle you could talk in?

Phil, a large percentage of Texas voters are gun owners... but that does not mean that a large percentage are gung ho about OC... Many are neutral. Most gun owners do not carry, concealed or otherwise. However if a candidate presents themselves as favoring gun control, we typically won't support them at all, based on principle alone.

Please tell me where the OC movement has made a positive difference. Do you view the new national policies of Starbuck's, Wendy's, Chili's, Chipotle, Jack in the Box, Sonic, and Target as wins for the OC movement? Has that created a positive public perception?

And if my view on the matter of carrying long guns into businesses is wrong, why is OCT now asking their members not to do so? If they were doing the right thing, why the change in tactics? Obviously, they are taking quite a bit of heat on the subject from others than just mad moms. When your tactics can divide the pro gun community, you are doing it wrong.

Unfortunately, they don't control all of their members, or all of the OC movement.

Gun-rights activists: No more long guns in businesses | Arlington | News from Fort Worth...