K38 Target Masterpiece

[glowe]

The K boxes show it as K-xx Masterpiece . . . Go figure why some sources call it a Target Masterpiece. S&W did not. Probably for the same reason many people insist on calling the .45 Colt cartridge a .45 Long Colt when there actually is no such thing. Someone who knew no better just started calling it that, it wasn't corrected, and the name caught on.

I usually rely on company printed materials for who "was" right. I say was because you have to look at the time period the gun in question was made. Over time, the company has changed the names of their products. The 38 HE line is a good example of changing model names at least 4 times before the introduction of model numbers.

The only 2 reasons for the emergence of the term 45 Long Colt that I lend any credibility to are when comparing to 45 Schofield or complementing the 38 Long Colt.

In the 1800s, the Frankford Arsenal was basically labeling the two 45 cartridges the same, Colt Revolver, Cal; .45, or Revolver Ball Cartridges, Calibre, .45. How did the military or private individuals order ammo? Did you take your chances, or order the long cartridge for Colt's and the short cartridge for S&W?

The more logical association to the 45 Long Colt term would be to compliment the 38 Long Colt, plus easily differentiate that cartridge from the shorter 45 Schofield, various short British 45s, or the 45 ACP round in the early 1900s.

It even caught on with some ammo manufacturers.

 

[glowe]

. . . Customer: Sir I want a "Masterpiece" revolver in 38 special....
Shop : We have a 4" Combat Masterpiece and a 6" for target shooting...which one ?
Customer: I want the target Masterpiece.

. . . but the Combat Masterpiece had target sights as well, so it would have been a Combat Target Masterpiece?????

 

[DWalt]

"In the 1800s, the Frankford Arsenal was basically labeling the two 45 cartridges the same, Colt Revolver, Cal; .45, or Revolver Ball Cartridges, Calibre, .45."

Frankford Arsenal made the .45 Colt length cartridge only in 1873 and part of 1874 with a copper case and inside (Benet Cup) priming. In 1874, Frankford Arsenal production was changed to the shorter .45 Schofield/.45 S&W version (so as to fit both Colt and S&W service revolvers), which continued in various forms (inside and Boxer primed, copper and brass cased) until early 1909. Frankford then produced the Model 1909 cartridge for the Colt New Service revolver, which was just the original .45 Colt cartridge with a larger diameter rim. So, except for the 1874 transition period, Frankford did not produce both .45 cartridge sizes simultaneously. And there could be no confusion regarding the Frankford product, as there was only one size. But of course the commercial ammunition manufacturers did produce both lengths simultaneously which probably did result in some confusion. The late 19th Century UMC ammunition catalogs clearly distinguished the two lengths as ".45 S&W" and ".45 Colt's," not .45 Short Colt and .45 Long Colt.

 

[Engine49guy]

. . . but the Combat Masterpiece had target sights as well, so it would have been a Combat Target Masterpiece?????

Dont forget that S&W was marketing 2 different versions of the 6" K38 Masterpiece in 1950 as well with the wider rib heavier barrel profile version dubbed the "Heavy Masterpiece".....

Then there was the 4" version of the wide rib K38 ....would that be a "Heavy Combat Masterpiece" ?
Not to be confused with the 4" Model 14-2 Heavy barrel .

...And what about the 5" narrow rib and wide rib versions ?

 

[Xfuzz]

Thread needs a pic.
1957 Pre 14 K38 with Lewis holster.
Smith is 95%+

 

[Engine49guy]

Here is a picture showing the different rear site scallops,
The style thats correct for your 1950(ish) K38 is the 3rd from the left,
Disregard the white outline blade and focus on the smaller scallop cut compared to the later ones on either side .

 

[JP@AK]

This thread has developed two distinctly different, well, "threads." One has to do with the question about a replacement rear sight and the other with the question of nomenclature.

I've carefully read through the answers given on the sight question and have nothing to add.

But here's my two cents on the nomenclature issue.
There can be no question as to what the factory always called the K-38. Leaving aside for the moment the brief period when they were making a barrel weight distinction, the gun's official name was always "K-38 Masterpiece" which was further identified as a "target revolver." (Just look at how these words appear on the gold boxes.)
As near as I can tell, the confusion arose with the Standard Catalog, which is not a S&W production. It was written by two very knowledgeable guys. But they are no more infallible than any of the rest of us. They made mistakes. One of those mistakes was identifying the K-38 by a name the factory never used: K-38 Target Masterpiece. Since so many people come to the collection fraternity and cut their collecting teeth on that excellent resource, the mistake caught on and has since been repeated over and over and over. Unfortunately it is simply incorrect. I truly hope if there is ever a 4th Edition (one is rumored), Jim and Richard will correct this mistake and start bringing an end to the confusion.
S&W's name for the K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

 

[JP@AK]

And yes. We need more pictures. So here are two.

 

[JP@AK]

I need to dig out one of my gold boxes and take a picture of it. But notice the revolver's name on the parts list inside the box in this picture of a Model 14-2.

 

[BigBill]

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only were there k22 masterpiece target revolvers too with the partridge front sight blade?
Does the partridge front sight on any revolver k or N make it a target revolver?

Sorry I'm asking about what labels the revolver a target revolver if we don't have the box or proof if the revolver isn't marked?

 

[JP@AK]

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only were there k22 masterpiece target revolvers too with the partridge front sight blade?
Does the partridge front sight on any revolver k or N make it a target revolver?
Sorry I'm asking about what labels the revolver a target revolver if we don't have the box or proof if the revolver isn't marked?

Bill
I'm going to assume you rec'd a satisfactory answer to this in the other thread you created asking the same question.
I'm writing here to clarify something for my own head.
This part:

My s&w k22 box says masterpiece only

Is it correct for me to assume you are talking about the blue box? If so, we would expect it to say only K-22 Masterpiece. On the gold boxes that were phased out during the 1950s, it said K-22 Masterpiece on the end, just like on the blue box. But on the side, it said K-22 Masterpiece Target Revolver. Nothing really changed, just the blue boxes were a lot less fancy with less stuff written on them. The gold boxes had all kinds of selling points listed on the top. The blue boxes were much more "plain Jane."
I hope this helps.

 

[Engine49guy]

.....
S&W's name for the K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

Perhaps adding "Six inch" to the statement so it reads :

S&W's name for the "Six inch" K-38 (both before and after the advent of model numbers) was and is, K-38 Masterpiece. Period.

The K-38 was available in 2", 4", 5", 6" and 8 3/8" barrel lengths at one time or another
(have also seen one factory made 3" K-38 Pinto )

As mentioned there was a brief period where the 6" wider rib K-38 was identified as the "K-38 Heavy Masterpiece" to help distinguish it from the older tapered barrel 6" K-38 Masterpiece (both were available in the 1950 AMC ) although this burgundy box does not have "Target revolver" printed on the label.

 

[BigBill]

Bill
I'm going to assume you rec'd a satisfactory answer to this in the other thread you created asking the same question.
I'm writing here to clarify something for my own head.
This part:

Is it correct for me to assume you are talking about the blue box? If so, we would expect it to say only K-22 Masterpiece. On the gold boxes that were phased out during the 1950s, it said K-22 Masterpiece on the end, just like on the blue box. But on the side, it said K-22 Masterpiece Target Revolver. Nothing really changed, just the blue boxes were a lot less fancy with less stuff written on them. The gold boxes had all kinds of selling points listed on the top. The blue boxes were much more "plain Jane."
I hope this helps.

I dug out my s&w k22 (1948) masterpiece so it says on the end of the gold box today. On the side like you say it's marked master piece target.