45-70 advice
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Snapping Twig
Member
For lighter loads, 2400 or 4227.
Full power loads for me are 4198.
I load cast only, so no help on duplication loads.
Hope this helps.
Full power loads for me are 4198.
I load cast only, so no help on duplication loads.
Hope this helps.
eyegots2no
Member
In the magazines you'll always see loads with 4198 or R?7? (i think) & 3031. You might just look on your shelf and use whatever you may already be using for another cartridge and if the manuals have used to develop a load then you're good, i.e. if you already are using 4198 for something, use that.
3031 is an old favorite for 45-70 and it works fine. You can fill it up to the bottom of most slugs usually around 53 grains depending on bullet.
IMHO --I feel like trying to duplicate a factory's load is ---well---so what.
If you get adequate velocity to make the round work---you've done fine and you do not have to have super duper duper velocity for any round---just appropriate velocity for the cartridge and the bullet without stretching it or being on the ragged edge.
The deceased animal does not know whether it was struck at 1600 fps or 1800fps.
3031 is an old favorite for 45-70 and it works fine. You can fill it up to the bottom of most slugs usually around 53 grains depending on bullet.
IMHO --I feel like trying to duplicate a factory's load is ---well---so what.
If you get adequate velocity to make the round work---you've done fine and you do not have to have super duper duper velocity for any round---just appropriate velocity for the cartridge and the bullet without stretching it or being on the ragged edge.
The deceased animal does not know whether it was struck at 1600 fps or 1800fps.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I mostly used 4198 in all my 45-70 loading until I tried AA5744 and now that's all I want to use. Unfortunately I only have 1 pound because I made the switch during the shortage. I have not loaded a lot of FTX bullets because of cost and availability but the ones I did load shot well from my Marlin when loaded with AA5744.
I'm sure 4198, 3031 and even SR4759 will all do well too...
I'm sure 4198, 3031 and even SR4759 will all do well too...
WaMike
Member
I've not dissected my factory 45-70 LeverEvolution cartridges, but have read that they are packed tightly with a mystery powder that looks fast burning (but no one seems to know for sure). Chuck Hawks, in his on-line blog, thinks it may be a duplex load, since his dissection revealed ball and flat powder.
My loading manuals have lots of recipes, but none that would match factory ballistics. I've finally resigned myself to buy factory Leverevolution cartridges when I find them on sale. I'll save the reloading for all the other bullets in my inventory.
My loading manuals have lots of recipes, but none that would match factory ballistics. I've finally resigned myself to buy factory Leverevolution cartridges when I find them on sale. I'll save the reloading for all the other bullets in my inventory.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
According to Hornady all the Leverevolution ammo is not loaded with the same powders. Each and every one uses a custom blended powder tailored specifically for that cartridge. The LVR powder marketed by Hodgdon is reported to be the 30-30 ammo formulation which for me is a good thing since that's what I'm using it for.
venomballistics
Member
45-70 government ...
the cartridge I keep falling deeper in love with lately.
the FTX kinda has me scratching my head in this application.
there will always be something better for launching spire points from.
The name of its game is baseball sized chunks of lead with great authority. It may be one of the most brilliant cast lead launch platforms ever committed to wood and steel. Save yourself some money and find some cast lead to feed it.
this is what it has done best since the 1870's
the cartridge I keep falling deeper in love with lately.
the FTX kinda has me scratching my head in this application.
there will always be something better for launching spire points from.
The name of its game is baseball sized chunks of lead with great authority. It may be one of the most brilliant cast lead launch platforms ever committed to wood and steel. Save yourself some money and find some cast lead to feed it.
this is what it has done best since the 1870's
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I'm reluctant to load Hornady FTX bullets because the cases must be shortened to maintain the OAL. I'm using Varget with 405 grain LaserCast bullets. I have 4198 and 3031 on hand for when I run out of Varget. 2400 is too fast, IMO, better suited to magnum handgun/carbine cartridges.
not sure what they use, cause i wont buy leverevolution ammo. cant reuse the brass... that being said, i have excellent results using Varget and AA5744 for light to medium loads. And full power loads i also have great results with H322. All with hardcast 405 grain bullets.
venomballistics
Member
Sure you can use the LVR brass, its kinda like the 38 / 357 relationship ... 45-70 special in a way.
I set mine aside for oddball type stuff id spend a little extra time with anyhow.
ruggyh
Member
Hornady uses 4198 in the 45-70 FTX factory ammo per personal communication with Hornady.
I have dissected factory ammo and believe them.
Suggest you do the same.
It was easy to duplicate, chrono confirmed velocity performance,
shoot confirmed grouping/accuracy.
The assumption that LeverRevolution Labeled Ammo uses it name sakes powder is incorrect. It is only used in some of rounds. Read Hornady's website and literature carefully. This topic has been discussed before on several forums.
This should be a reminder internet and forum information should be not be treated as fact until you fully vet it.
That includes this post.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
I have dissected factory ammo and believe them.
Suggest you do the same.
It was easy to duplicate, chrono confirmed velocity performance,
shoot confirmed grouping/accuracy.
The assumption that LeverRevolution Labeled Ammo uses it name sakes powder is incorrect. It is only used in some of rounds. Read Hornady's website and literature carefully. This topic has been discussed before on several forums.
This should be a reminder internet and forum information should be not be treated as fact until you fully vet it.
That includes this post.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The brass is not shortened much at all and if the cartridge works well in rifles with a FTX bullet it will work just as well with the other bullets meant for the 45-70. I have used 45-70 Hornady brass from LVR ammo with a 405gr Cast bullet and I didn't change anything I usually do when loading with other brass. The ammo worked flawlessly in my Trapdoor and Marlin levergun.
Back in the day all they had for loading the 45-70 was Black Powder, Unique and 2400. You can use 2400 with great success although I prefer SR4759 and AA5744.
Hornady advised me to keep those bullets at 2000fps or less. I use them in a 458 Win Mag Ruger #1.
papajohn428
Member
I've used 4198, 3031, 4064 and Varget, but Varget gave me better extreme spreads and accuracy, so that's what I'm sticking with. It's hard to get into trouble with Varget!
retired_diver
Member
IMR 4198 has been around since 1935 I first started loading the 45-70 in the 70's with it. before then I didn't have a 45-70 so was not concerned about it. So i don't know how far your "back in the day" does but 1935 is way way before mine
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Back in the day as in 2400 was labeled "2400 Rifle Powder" and was one of the only smokeless powders being produced.
I think IMR 4198 appeared ~ 1935 and Hercules 2400 came about ~ 1930 but very few shooters had access to IMR powders and it was the Hercules powder that were being used. Bullseye(1898 DuPont), Unique(1900 DuPont) and 2400(1930 Hercules), the original powder trinity...
I think IMR 4198 appeared ~ 1935 and Hercules 2400 came about ~ 1930 but very few shooters had access to IMR powders and it was the Hercules powder that were being used. Bullseye(1898 DuPont), Unique(1900 DuPont) and 2400(1930 Hercules), the original powder trinity...
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
When I loaded that round it was a 300gr RNFP 0r RNL bullet over 14-16gr of IMR 4198. Go safely.
Fishinfool
Member
A note about the 325 grain FTX bullet, if that is what you are using. My 45-70 double shot well with the factory Hornady load at 2050 fps. I used a factory load on a big Maine buck a couple years ago, and was not impressed with the bullet performance. The bullet hit on the shoulder, and came apart. Fragments entered the chest cavity, and killed him pretty quickly, but the bullet performance was too explosive, in my opinion. Now, that's just one deer as an example, but......
OAL length with this bullet means either Hornady cases, or trimming others to Hornady specs for reliable feeding in a repeater. Using the shorter Hornady cases, you may or may not have a problem crimping bullets, depending on your set of dies. I always crimp when using a repeater to avoid bullet set back in the tube due to recoil.
Larry
OAL length with this bullet means either Hornady cases, or trimming others to Hornady specs for reliable feeding in a repeater. Using the shorter Hornady cases, you may or may not have a problem crimping bullets, depending on your set of dies. I always crimp when using a repeater to avoid bullet set back in the tube due to recoil.
Larry
