Stupidity can get a person in trouble ...

[ChattanoogaPhil]

How can someone be considered doing wrong by attempting to talk to someone and asking them to modify their behavior? This attitude is what has caused people to sit in their homes and not interact with their neighbors, but call the police when there is a problem. I can't envision a jury coming to the conclusion that discussing a minor problem with someone before calling the police, would be considered wrong on any level.

According to the OP they were not recognized as neighbors. They were loud, disruptive strangers assumed to be refugees from a tavern (intoxicated). The OP left the safety of inside his home, walked off his property and across the street to confront these disruptive and presumed intoxicated strangers, admitting that it could have ended tragically.

Curious how folks see things differently. Some see nothing wrong. I see nothing that isn't wrong. Sometimes in situations I ask myself how I would advise a family member. In such a case I would not advise anyone in my family to do that.

 

[BE Mike]

According to the OP they were not recognized as neighbors. They were loud, disruptive strangers assumed to be refugees from a tavern (intoxicated). The OP left the safety of inside his home, walked off his property and across the street to confront these unknown presumed intoxicated strangers, admitting that it could have ended tragically.

Curious how folks see things differently. Some see nothing wrong. I see nothing that isn't wrong.

My response was that I didn't think that it would be reasonable to say that the OP was the "initiator" of an incident, simply by doing what he did. I still don't see it that way.

 

[Protected One]

How can someone be considered doing wrong by attempting to talk to someone and asking them to modify their behavior? This attitude is what has caused people to sit in their homes and not interact with their neighbors, but call the police when there is a problem. I can't envision a jury coming to the conclusion that discussing a minor problem with someone before calling the police, would be considered wrong on any level. Now if the person attempting to discuss the problem was displaying inappropriate behavior, then that might change things. Now, if the people displaying the bad behavior includes felonious acts, then by all means the police should be called first.

Attempting to talk to someone is not the problem. The problem is (or I should say "could be") approaching people he suspected of possibly being inebriated, and trying to get them to behave rationally. If the situation deteriorated to the point that he had to use his firearm it's VERY EASY to see a jury wondering the following:
If he felt the situation might result in him needing his firearm then why didn't he avoid it altogether? The fact that he saw fit to take a gun with him is HIS acknowlegment that this could be dangerous, and he did have options.

 

[Lycan]

How can someone be considered doing wrong by attempting to talk to someone and asking them to modify their behavior? This attitude is what has caused people to sit in their homes and not interact with their neighbors, but call the police when there is a problem. I can't envision a jury coming to the conclusion that discussing a minor problem with someone before calling the police, would be considered wrong on any level. Now if the person attempting to discuss the problem was displaying inappropriate behavior, then that might change things. Now, if the people displaying the bad behavior includes felonious acts, then by all means the police should be called first.

Welcome to the current US judicial system. In the eyes of a lawyer or prosecutor, the person engaging would be the aggressor no matter how innocent or right they thought their actions were. The people in the street would claim they were just legally minding their own business when you approached them in an aggressive, demanding, and threatening manner and they had to defend themselves. It doesn't matter if it really happened that way or not. Good luck in trying to prove it. It's better to just let the police do their job.

 

[Laketime]

Nothing wrong with dispersing a group being loud,but if you feel you need to be armed to do so,then you might be a little over your head.Best to just let the PD handle things.Glad things worked out for you and you weren't harmed.

 

[Rastoff]

Nothing wrong with dispersing a group being loud,but if you feel you need to be armed to do so,then you might be a little over your head.Best to just let the PD handle things.Glad things worked out for you and you weren't harmed.

I'm not picking on you Laketime, but several here have said the same thing. Why is leaving the house for this situation any different than leaving the house normally?

There are plenty on this site that talk about how they never leave their home unarmed. So, why would you ever leave the house unarmed? Especially when there is a higher probability of needing it?

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Confronting a couple guys, that you assume are intoxicated, in order to reason with them... what could go wrong?

While I applaud your cool head during the encounter, I don't think it was the best idea to put yourself in such a position to begin with.

That about sums it up. I spent 35 years dealing with drunks and druggies and now, as a civilian, avoid them like the plague. To paraphrase an old saying, "Never try to teach a pig to sing, you'll waste your time and annoy the pig". So let's leave them alone and not find out the hard way we're dealing with a chronic case of stupid.

 

[Laketime]

I'm not picking on you Laketime, but several here have said the same thing. Why is leaving the house for this situation any different than leaving the house normally?

There are plenty on this site that talk about how they never leave their home unarmed. So, why would you ever leave the house unarmed? Especially when there is a higher probability of needing it?

No offense taken,and certainly nothing wrong with being armed everyday.I would advise anyone not to approach a situation that they can not knowingly control.Being armed can only escalate a situation in which you have already lost.Regardless I am glad that all turned out ok.

 

[jimmyj]

IMHO : STAY inside your home and call the Police.

 

[BE Mike]

No offense taken,and certainly nothing wrong with being armed everyday.I would advise anyone not to approach a situation that they can not knowingly control.Being armed can only escalate a situation in which you have already lost.Regardless I am glad that all turned out ok.

No one can expect to control any situation. Like I always said, I always go about legally armed. I suppose a lot of these views indicate the area of the country in which one lives or has lived.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Fire extinguisher-legal in all 50 states and Puerto Rico

A CO2 or foam fire extinguisher temporarily blinds, stifles, and suffocates. Empty, it makes an excellent blunt force striking object. Not ideal for a large crowd, but for three or less it is more than adequate if deployed properly.

 

[Rastoff]

Careful, fire extinguishers can be deadly. A Halon fire extinguisher, yes they're still out there, can kill someone in a minute. CO2 fire extinguishers work by cold. They can cause permanent damage. The foam type are designed to remove oxygen just like Halon and can cause serious breathing issues.

So, yeah, they're legal, but not necessarily free from prosecution later.

 

[Laketime]

No one can ecouldnt tell you,since I lived in Boston most of my life before moving to these partsxpect to control any situation. Like I always said, I always go about legally armed. I suppose a lot of these views indicate the area of the country in which one lives or has lived.

Couldn't tell you since I have lived in Boston most of my life,before moving south

 

[Lycan]

A CO2 or foam fire extinguisher temporarily blinds, stifles, and suffocates. Empty, it makes an excellent blunt force striking object. Not ideal for a large crowd, but for three or less it is more than adequate if deployed properly.

Bringing a fire extinguisher to a gun fight is never a good idea. Not only could you get shot (maybe killed), and again, you could be viewed as the aggressor. Let's face it, if there isn't a fire, you clearly have that extinguisher for only one reason. I can promise you, if you try to hit me with an extinguisher, I will consider it deadly force and take defensive measures. I'm betting others will see it the same way. At the very least, if they are not armed, you still go to jail for assault.

 

[Protected One]

I'm not picking on you Laketime, but several here have said the same thing. Why is leaving the house for this situation any different than leaving the house normally?
There are plenty on this site that talk about how they never leave their home unarmed. So, why would you ever leave the house unarmed? Especially when there is a higher probability of needing it?

A little surprised to see this statement coming from you. Leaving the house (armed) to go about ones daily task is totally different than leaving the house (armed) to "specifically" confront someone.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'm not sure that being armed is the issue. The OP said he carries everywhere, period. So whether he went outside to slip the garbage man $10 at Christmas or confront two idiots, he's going to be armed, period. OP said his gun was concealed. So really, the gun didn't play any role in "escalating" anything.

Now you could always play the what if game. If the OP was attacked and life in jeopardy requiring the use of lethal force in self defense, he could have found himself in front of a jury with the prosecutor portraying him as taking his gun to confront these kind and thoughtful gentlemen . But if that was the case, it's better to be judged by twelve than be carried by six any way you look at it. I just think its better to avoid such situations when possible rather than roll the what if dice, armed or not.

On the flip side, these two idiots ought to consider how fortunate they were that the OP is the calm cool and collected person that he is. I used to run with a couple boys who would have not been so tolerant of someone running their mouth like that.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Careful, fire extinguishers can be deadly. A Halon fire extinguisher, yes they're still out there, can kill someone in a minute. CO2 fire extinguishers work by cold. They can cause permanent damage. The foam type are designed to remove oxygen just like Halon and can cause serious breathing issues.

So, yeah, they're legal, but not necessarily free from prosecution later.

LOL!! I own a Halon fire extinguisher!! It came out of a Land Rover. I wouldn't waste it on some moron.

I have seen a LEO use a fire extinguisher as I described. It did cause breathing issues with the disadvantaged youths and smart aleck store manager but so would the Beretta had he used it.

 

[Yiogo]

I would not leave my home either, where I have the advantage, and family to talk to loud people. My job is to keep my family safe and secure. I can't do that when I'm outside confronting loudmouths.

Call the police first or let it go. JMO.

Of course, I'd go talk to a neighbor who I knew if the noise was bothersome. But a couple of boisterous miscreants...I don't thinks so.

I'd call the police pronto. It's their job to enforce the laws.

Yiogo

 

[Justified]

If we have gotten to the point where a person cannot make a simple request of another person to act civilly, then all is lost.

I am at a loss by anyone's opinion that I was in fact an aggressor in the situation, and that carrying my CCW was looking for trouble.

When you walked out of your house, crossed your threshold and across the street to confront what you assumed was Noisy Meth Man, you became an aggressor.

I understand the want to watch your neighborhood...but it sounds like you misinterpreted this one. Be glad Meth Man didn't perceive YOU as a threat and stand his ground. That would have been awkward.

Everyone, one time or another is standing in the street trying to figure out directions...and loud is relative.

Anyway, you said they were from NYS, so LOUD talking is normal.

 

[bigmoneylewis]

It's a pretty sad day in America when the majority of people responding to this post seem to think it is wrong to politly ask
riff raff to hold the noise level down late at night in front of your own dwelling . Sad indeed .

Lewis