Is STATE MANDATED safety training really necessary?
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
The reason I started this thread is because I'm beginning to see a pattern of states moving away from requiring a permit to carry a concealed handgun.
No requirement for a permit = no requirement for training.
I think it's coming and I'm curious what those of you who think the State needs to force people to get training are going to do when the wave hits your state?
No requirement for a permit = no requirement for training.
I think it's coming and I'm curious what those of you who think the State needs to force people to get training are going to do when the wave hits your state?
No, if you got that from my post then I totally failed in my attempt.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't think you're "wishy washy". I've said exactly the same thing many times, including in this thread.
People who ignore the law to the degree that they acquire a felony conviction don't get guns. It demonstrates a lack of regard for the consequences of your actions.
Well, that's a significant misunderstanding on your part of what agencies do. You may or may not like it, but Courts interpret the law, not agencies. Agencies may present their interepretation of the law to the Court, but that doesn't mean that they're correct. The Court decides that . . .
See after reading this
That's not at all the impression I got
No, the misunderstanding is on your part. In fact, there is a case that was just argued before SCOTUS that involves part of this.
It's not easy to get a case into federal court successfully. More cases are dismissed than litigated and the higher in the court system a case goes, the more likely it is to be denied.
I don't know that anyone has previously challenged the way that ATF administers the law.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Smoke,
You can't take comments out of context. I do agree that kids in school should be taught how to handle guns safely. That's not the same as government mandated training to carry a gun.
You can't take comments out of context. I do agree that kids in school should be taught how to handle guns safely. That's not the same as government mandated training to carry a gun.
Hang-Fire Hank
Member
That's not correct, Ken. The training I gave people when it was mandated by our AZ state very definitely DID have positive results in safety awareness. I've had many people say they felt they learned a lot & felt much more safe handling & shooting their guns.
Hank
Biggfoot44
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And as noted in the first page, in an indeterminate number of states , the accepted training is open ended enough to be essentially none.
And between all three catagories the rates of accidental and mistaken shootings are equally near zero. And it's not as if LE and Mil don't have slip ups.
I'm a firm believer in knokledge and useful skills. My personal belief is what a reasonable and competant person should know and be capable is quite high. But even if mandatory training were Constitutionally viable , there is no statiscal need.
Many Gov'ts primarily seek as many roadblocks as possable to discourage people from carrying. ( Even if the actual training is basic there is the hassle of getting a training slot from an Offical State Certified Instructor , fitting into one's schedule , traveling to their location , and of course the $ ). And among a certain % of Official State Certified Instructors, they will be in favor of having a captive audience for their services.
Yes , many of the Instructors are good people , and can even teach useful skills. Such Instructor should have no trouble having clients who volentarily wish to train with them.
And between all three catagories the rates of accidental and mistaken shootings are equally near zero. And it's not as if LE and Mil don't have slip ups.
I'm a firm believer in knokledge and useful skills. My personal belief is what a reasonable and competant person should know and be capable is quite high. But even if mandatory training were Constitutionally viable , there is no statiscal need.
Many Gov'ts primarily seek as many roadblocks as possable to discourage people from carrying. ( Even if the actual training is basic there is the hassle of getting a training slot from an Offical State Certified Instructor , fitting into one's schedule , traveling to their location , and of course the $ ). And among a certain % of Official State Certified Instructors, they will be in favor of having a captive audience for their services.
Yes , many of the Instructors are good people , and can even teach useful skills. Such Instructor should have no trouble having clients who volentarily wish to train with them.
Absolutely, it did. It was the ones who had no training that were not safe. Now this was not universal. Many had military training. Many were shooters who trained on their own time and took the responsibility to practice and were taught by others. The time between the first mandatory LE training and the addition of the safety classes was decades.
I'm not trying to argue with you. You asked for opinions and I gave mine.
Oh yea. Same as sex ed. You get taught about your consequences bringing someone into the world, you should get taught about gun safety
bhayles
Member
Of course, just as they can disqualify themselves from the right to vote by becoming a felon.
However, in the case of carrying a gun I don't think it should be ALL felons, just violent ones. While a bank robber or someone convicted of aggravated assault should be banned, an embezzler shouldn't. Once a non-violent felon has served their sentence, paid their debt to society, they should be allowed to defend themself just like the rest of us.
bhayles
Member
With that (il)logic, anyone who has ever gotten a speeding ticket should be banned from carrying...after all, they have shown a willingness to ignore the law for their personal gain (save time, get there quicker, not be late for a meeting, etc.
ChattanoogaPhil
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The ironic thing about all this is that after 12 years of government mandatory training, some people believe the government should require training and licensing to exercize a Constitutional right....
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MrJT
US Veteran
So many points many people have touched upon.
I'm in the "no mandated training" camp.
Just look at drivers. There's mandated training for young drivers in PA. They need so many hours of training with their permit and then have to pass a state mandated test.
How many kids do you think end up speeding or texting or trying to take a "selfie" of themself behind the wheel on their first solo road trip?
How many experienced drivers do you see driving while texting or applying makeup or eating a Big Mac with one hand while holding a milkshake in the other. How often do you see blatant disregard for driving laws?
My point: just because you had training, doesn't mean you're trained.
I'm in the "no mandated training" camp.
Just look at drivers. There's mandated training for young drivers in PA. They need so many hours of training with their permit and then have to pass a state mandated test.
How many kids do you think end up speeding or texting or trying to take a "selfie" of themself behind the wheel on their first solo road trip?
How many experienced drivers do you see driving while texting or applying makeup or eating a Big Mac with one hand while holding a milkshake in the other. How often do you see blatant disregard for driving laws?
My point: just because you had training, doesn't mean you're trained.
MrJT
US Veteran
Another point:
We just had a story in the local news about an area cop assigned to a school. He was in an office with a faculty member and decided to show him his gun, demonstrate how to clean it...
Guess what?
Yep... the gun "went off" as they say on the news.
Now, do you supporters of mandated training propose MORE training is required than what this cop has had? He obviously wasn't TRAINED enough since he made such a dumb mistake.
We just had a story in the local news about an area cop assigned to a school. He was in an office with a faculty member and decided to show him his gun, demonstrate how to clean it...
Guess what?
Yep... the gun "went off" as they say on the news.
Now, do you supporters of mandated training propose MORE training is required than what this cop has had? He obviously wasn't TRAINED enough since he made such a dumb mistake.
In most states speeding is a strict liability offense where no mental intent is required. Felonies require mental intent. A person has to think through committing a felony, unless its felony murder and then the underlying felony requires intent.
Not arguing, just clarifying.
