Gun Ownership Survey

[5Wire]

The claim of declining gun ownership, in my opinion, is a desperate attempt by the antis because,

• The number of guns in private hands has grown steadily to the point there are about as many guns as people.
• In spite of this fact, violent crime rates, including "gun crimes", have steadily declined at the same time, by about 50% since 1992.
• Attempting to minimize perception seemingly invalidates the More Guns, Less Crime thesis demonstrated by John Lott in his book of that name.

A declining trend cannot be either proved or disproved and the assumption intended by antis is, if claims of diminishing ownership can't be disproved, they must be true. (A logical fallacy, argumentum ad ignorantiam).

Here's an opinion on the subject by the National Shooting Sports Foundation which includes points posted in this thread.

Here's a more pointed piece by Gary Kleck on Defensive Gun Use.

 

[model70hunter]

I read the survey, didn't it mention that even though they say gun ownership is down the number of guns sold is going up?

So if a stranger called or knocked on my door asking if I had guns I might show them one but never admit to owning any.

Today's journalism is all about some worthless piece of overpaid stupor star or some kardashin witch who provides nothing to the planet.

Journalists had become suspect in Mark Twain's era, hope it's not a misquote or you might think I'm a joranalist, they were pounding guns and saturday night specials, they were screaming to get rid of dangerous tools. Mark agreed, said they need to start with typewriters.

 

[chief38]

Don't believe everything you read! There are many who are "closet gun owners" these days. Just a dream from the Anti's IMHO but not in actuality as far as what I see.

 

[3dots]

Never believe anything in the media about guns. 90% of the members of this forum have no guns. We just hang here and BS cause it's one of the best lounges of any forum on the net.

 

[mikey460sw]

Down 35% man that's why my lgs coffee sales are up 50% we just hang around and drink coffee that's how they stay in business!! O ya there cookie sales are up to 50% to go along with all that coffee.

 

[Eagle 477]

Mine were all lost in hurricane Sandy, last seen being devoured by a great white shark off Montauk Point, Along with all my Fly Rods..

Rob

 

[OldSquid]

I'm not concerned whether gun sales are up or down. As long as my 2nd Amendment rights are not at stake, I'm good to go.

The exact intent of the 2nd Amendment has been a matter of disagreement for years. If you're solidly pro-gun, you focus on the "Shall not be infringed" part of the wording and believe that there is nothing more left to be said. If you're anti-gun, you focus on the "Well regulated militia" part and go from there. If you're in the middle, you think that maybe there is some in between ground - but you're not willing to trust that the antis won't try to turn an inch into a mile and leave you with nothing to defend yourself but a Red Rider BB-gun... and that is next on their list.

The key is to support the NRA and other groups that defend the "Shall not be infringed" part. Doesn't matter whether sales/levels of ownership are up or down - our right to defend ourselves is still protected.

 

[johngalt]

That survey would get different results if they went to Kentucky!

 

[OldSquid]

I'm not concerned whether gun sales are up or down. As long as my 2nd Amendment rights are not at stake, I'm good to go.

The exact intent of the 2nd Amendment has been a matter of disagreement for years. If you're solidly pro-gun, you focus on the "Shall not be infringed" part of the wording and believe that there is nothing more left to be said. If you're anti-gun, you focus on the "Well regulated militia" part and go from there. If you're in the middle, you think that maybe there is some in between ground - but you're not willing to trust that the antis won't try to turn an inch into a mile and leave you with nothing to defend yourself but a Red Rider BB-gun... and that is next on their list.

The key is to support the NRA and other groups that defend the "Shall not be infringed" part. Doesn't matter whether sales/levels of ownership are up or down - our right to defend ourselves is still protected.

The NRA can only do so much. The rest is up to us to keep an eye on politicians. Where do they stand on the 2nd? But just as importantly, where do they stand on the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments? The other 10 Amendments are just as important, but the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments are the very foundations of our freedoms, and if any of these are threatened then you can kiss your freedom goodbye.

Don't just pay attention to their positions on the 2nd - pay attention to their positions on the entire Bill of Rights. Then check their voting records and positions on the Patriot Act and the Indefinite Detention Bill. If you ever held the view that all Republicans are good and all Democrats are bad, the histories and votes on these two shining examples of "responsible governance" will surprise you. They should also horrify you.

 

[P&R Fan]

The claim of declining gun ownership, in my opinion, is a desperate attempt by the antis because,

• The number of guns in private hands has grown steadily to the point there are about as many guns as people.
• In spite of this fact, violent crime rates, including "gun crimes", have steadily declined at the same time, by about 50% since 1992.
• Attempting to minimize perception seemingly invalidates the More Guns, Less Crime thesis demonstrated by John Lott in his book of that name.

A declining trend cannot be either proved or disproved and the assumption intended by antis is, if claims of diminishing ownership can't be disproved, they must be true. (A logical fallacy, argumentum ad ignorantiam).

Here's an opinion on the subject by the National Shooting Sports Foundation which includes points posted in this thread.

Here's a more pointed piece by Gary Kleck on Defensive Gun Use.

Not to get into too much of a thread drift here, but I wanted to comment on something in Klecks piece. He mentions Dr. David Hemenway, a VERY anti gun researcher. Dr. Hemenway dismisses Klecks claims about how many DGUs there are in this country, but grudgingly admits the number is about 100,000 per year. The studies I have read say there are about 30,000 murders and suicides per year in this country that are gun related. I have no idea whether that is a true number, but if it is, the number of DGUs is three times that number.
I have posted that on Facebook several times on anti gun sites. Usually get banned.

I agree most people, when questioned about gun ownership by a stranger would not be forthcoming.
Heck, mine were all lost in that big tidal wave that hit Iowa last year.
Jim

 

[sceva]

90% of all statistics can be made to say anything... 50% of the time

 

[5Wire]

...Dr. Hemenway dismisses Klecks claims about how many DGUs there are in this country, but grudgingly admits the number is about 100,000 per year. The studies I have read say there are about 30,000 murders and suicides per year in this country that are gun related. I have no idea whether that is a true number, but if it is, the number of DGUs is three times that number...

Kleck's study is about right in the middle. See Two-Part Table where the poll showing the highest DGU was from the L.A. Times at over 3 million.

Hemenway has refused to show his source data and Kleck, Mustard, Lott all wipe the floor with him at different times.

In fact, the Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence ( 2013 ) done by the CDC at Obama's request uses Kleck's findings:

Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

Another study done by the Congressional Research Service, Gun Control Legislation, also cites Kleck, among others:

How Often Are Firearms Used in Self-Defense?
According to BJS, NCVS data from 1987 to 1992 indicate that in each of those years, roughly 62,200 victims of violent crime (1% of all victims of such crimes) used guns to defend themselves.46 Another 20,000 persons each year used guns to protect property. Persons in the business of self-protection (police officers, armed security guards) may have been included in the survey.47 Another source of information on the use of firearms for self-defense is the National Self-Defense Survey conducted by criminology professor Gary Kleck of Florida State University in the spring of 1993. Citing responses from 4,978 households, Dr. Kleck estimated that handguns had been used 2.1 million times per year for self-defense, and that all types of guns had been used approximately 2.5 million times a year for that purpose during the 1988-1993 period.

Hemenway, Vivek H. Murthy, Obama's Surgeon General, somehow fail to give these studies any credibility. Fortunately, I believe the facts speak for themselves.

 

[the ringo kid]

Used to have a BB gun. Lost it in a boating accident on the Mississippi. I was so broken up that I never bought another.

Want mine? Its never been out of its plastic package yet.

 

[unclebob]

Used to have a BB gun. Lost it in a boating accident on the Mississippi. I was so broken up that I never bought another.

Good thing, you might have put someones eye out if you were not careful!!