What is she doing wrong?

[shutter13]

I got a 40 m&p shield a couple of weeks ago. Me and my son put 50 rounds through it with no issues. Today we took my wife to the backyard range and between all of us we put about 200 DRs through the gun. Each time my wife would shoot (she has never shot before that I know of) she would have an FTF. Typically on the second round, although not always. When I would rack the slide and look at the round the primer was lightly dimpled. I would put the round back in the magazine chamber it and it would fire just fine.

This series of events did not happen to my son or me, whether we shot slowly or rapidly. I assume it is her grip or she is not letting the trigger completely reset, but I'm not sure. So what do you think?

 

[Mapko]

OBVIOUSLY, the "ladies touch" is the problem. In a "mans' " world it;s called LIMP WRIST.

 

[DeathF.above]

Does she have any type of failure to extract? Or just light primer strikes?

 

[petepeterson]

Must be the grip. My girlfriend had the 9mm model, and exactly the same thing happened. If you watch, you'll probably notice that the slide is most of the way back in battery after it's fired, but still a hair out.

I ran 300 rds through it without the slightest hitch, but we couldn't get it to run for her. She sold it, and bought a Glock 19. No problems with that, which I attribute to the additional weight and gripping surface.

 

[gwpercle]

Limp wristing...buy her a revolver to get started, after learning some shooting basics with it then move up to the semi-auto's .
22's are great for teaching a lady who has never shot before.
Some people just don't have the hand strength , male /female, young/old...revolver takes this aspect out of the shooting equation.
Gary

 

[Sconnie]

Not a shooting expert by any means but the first thought I had when you described what was happening is she is limp wristing. Making her conscious of it will help and then she has to guard about putting on a death grip to compensate and pushing forward.

Practice practice practice.

Oh, and limp wristing a revolver typically results in shooting high.

I am almost exclusively a revolver guy but I don't necessarily say you have to go to one of those. But I think I have seen pretty positive reviews of the M&P 22. Might be a good way to learn the fundamentals assuming your budget can handle that. Oh, and finding .22LR ammo....well, that can add some aggravation too.

 

[NCavi8tor]

That weapon has a LOT of recoil for a first time shooter!! You're gonna scare her away from shooting if you're not careful!

NC

 

[Big Stick]

Agree with the limp wrist assessment. If you teach her to extend her dominant arm/hand fully with elbow locked, it will help put the wrist/hand in line with the barrel, and cut back on the FTF's a bit.... Good luck!

 

[shutter13]

Does she have any type of failure to extract? Or just light primer strikes?

No failure to extract, just light primer strikes.

 

[shutter13]

That weapon has a LOT of recoil for a first time shooter!! You're gonna scare her away from shooting if you're not careful!

NC

Agreed, at the moment that is the only handgun I have, but I do have a sig sp2022 that I'm picking up Wednesday, she may do better with that.

 

[ATF]

A .40 S&W is not a lady's gun 9mm would be the best. What caliber have you bought the SP2022 in? The problem you'll have with the Sig is hammers and de-cockers which she will find complicated. Get her a .38 Special revolver with a hammer maybe a Lady Smith. A woman needs her own gun especially when starting out.

 

[Rastoff]

Wow, amazing how quickly people jump to the old standby "limp wristing" for just about any handgun issue.

No failure to extract, just light primer strikes.

Light primer strikes cannot be caused by a weak grip. The grip has nothing to do with the internal workings of the gun. The striker travels the same distance no matter how you hold the gun.

Someone mentioned a potential out-of-battery situation. If the gun were capable of firing when out-of-batter, which it's not, then it wouldn't hit the primer at all because the chamber drops below the striker pin hole.

Even if the slide were back just a little, it still won't do what you say. If the gun is capable of firing, then it will fire. There is enough travel and force on the striker to ignite the primer.

Did she fire after you guys? Did you fire after she did? Did it only happen on the second round or at other positions of the mag?

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you. I just can't believe it's grip related.

 

[crankyoldlady]

Are we talking factory or hand loads? Any Winchester White box by chance?

 

[ATF]

Yeah I didn't read the "lightly dimpled" bit that's probably an ammo problem maybe the slide isn't going fully forward which can be caused by a bulged cartridge.

 

[rwsmith]

Grip with a straight, strong grip

Grip with a straight strong grip and let the forearm and to a lesser extent the upper arm rise with the recoil. There will be some flip in the hand still, but minimize it in favor of letting the arm take up the recoil. The problem is that held loosely, the hand acts likes a buffer that takes up the recoil that should allow the slide to go all the way back, but doesn't, so it 'short cycles'. This takes awareness more than strength so she should be able to correct it without much difficulty. If it turns out to be too much for her, she may be able to control lighter ammo and if not, a 9mm may be in her future.

 

[petepeterson]

Wow, amazing how quickly people jump to the old standby "limp wristing" for just about any handgun issue.

Light primer strikes cannot be caused by a weak grip. The grip has nothing to do with the internal workings of the gun. The striker travels the same distance no matter how you hold the gun.

Someone mentioned a potential out-of-battery situation. If the gun were capable of firing when out-of-batter, which it's not, then it wouldn't hit the primer at all because the chamber drops below the striker pin hole.

Even if the slide were back just a little, it still won't do what you say. If the gun is capable of firing, then it will fire. There is enough travel and force on the striker to ignite the primer.

Did she fire after you guys? Did you fire after she did? Did it only happen on the second round or at other positions of the mag?

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for you. I just can't believe it's grip related.

I would've agreed with you 100% before,if I didn't witness it over and over again. I shot my girl's gun before, during, and after it happened to her. Had her neighbor shoot it, too.With all types of ammo. Pistol went back to Smith, they said it was "in spec." Same thing for her after it came back. It would fire once, twice, maybe a few times, then...click. Dimpled primer. She also had an issue with it going into battery at all sometimes, and would manually have to push the slide forward.

 

[Mister X]

If the cause is indeed her and not the gun, a revolver is a good choice for woman(and some men). Even if you work through the issue with training and using working on technique, in an actual defense shooting, there is a strong probability of having to shoot one handed or without having an ideal grip, stance, alignment etc. so the chances of having a failure would again be high. I'm not sure going to 9mm would help. The 9mm Glocks are the ones most prone to limp-wristing, especially with mild ammunition since the slide travels slower in relation to the poorly braced/supported lightweight frame compared with hotter loads. I can't see why the shield would be any different.

 

[shutter13]

This happened to her several times, we were taking turns shooting so she both shot before and after us She was the only one to experience this problem, it almost always happened on the second round, but I think once or twice it was later in the magazine.

I thought maybe she wasn't letting he trigger reset completely before pulling the trigger again.

 

[Rastoff]

It would fire once, twice, maybe a few times, then...click. Dimpled primer.

OK, I'll defer to you. Still, I don't see how grip can cause the light strike. Can you offer any theories as to why this happens? Is it only with the Shield?

She also had an issue with it going into battery at all sometimes, and would manually have to push the slide forward.

Not going into battery is a different issue. This CAN be caused by a weak grip. The thing is, the gun won't release the striker if it's not in battery.

 

[shutter13]

The ammo was factory ammunition federal 180 grain fmj. If it had happened to me or my son even once I would suspect the ammo or the gun, but it didn't in 200 DRs it happened 4 or 5 times and only to her.