What is she doing wrong?

[crankyoldlady]

Since the 40 has a sharp, snappy recoil that is unpleasant, she may (without knowing it) be flinching and loosening her grip.

Just my opinion...40s are not a good choice for inexperienced shooters. The 45 ACP and 44 magnum are fun to shoot. The 40 S&W is not.

 

[petepeterson]

OK, I'll defer to you. Still, I don't see how grip can cause the light strike. Can you offer any theories as to why this happens? Is it only with the Shield?

Not going into battery is a different issue. This CAN be caused by a weak grip. The thing is, the gun won't release the striker if it's not in battery.

I don't mean to take over shutter's thread, but it sounds similar to what I've experienced.

After the pistol fired (again, only when she fired it), there were 3 possible results:

1. Slide in normal position, pistol fires. This happened for her approx. 70% of the time.

2. Slide about 1/8" back from where it should be, resulting in an inoperable trigger. Slide would need to be pushed fwd with thumb, then it would fire.

3. Slide was almost in battery, but not quite. Result was a click and dimpled primer. It got to be where after she fired it, I could tell by looking at the slide what would happen. I tried to recreate the situation by nudging it back manually, but couldn't find that sweet spot.

Please note that I'm not disparaging the Shield. I found it to be a great shooter, and very easy to carry. If I wasn't so hung up on the weight of a striker-fired trigger pull, I would certainly consider it as an EDC. She sold it to a gent who I kept in touch with afterward, and he's had no troubles whatsoever.

 

[rwsmith]

My wife loves revolvers......

If the cause is indeed her and not the gun, a revolver is a good choice for woman(and some men).

My wife loves to shoot my 686, especially with light loads. She really doesn't care for semis. I'm trying to very gently get her to try some light loads in a semi.

 

[HCH]

I think I'd trade for another one. Lot's of athletic women that can handle a firearm out there.

 

[Magload]

I think I'd trade for another one. Lot's of athletic women that can handle a firearm out there.

Another wife or another gun. With guns you just buy more.

 

[kd62]

Have you tried switching out the backstrap to a small? I am a female, but I have "man hands" so the medium backstrap suits me just fine. Also, a two-handed grip will probably assist her in the "limp wrist" department. I have a .40 M&P and I like it just fine.

 

[Rastoff]

Have you tried switching out the backstrap to a small?

Good thought, but the Shield doesn't have interchangeable back straps.

Also, I have large hands yet prefer the small back strap. My wife has smallish hands and prefers the large back strap. Go figure.

 

[shutter13]

We are going to try her out next week with a .38 revolver, a 380 and a compact 9 and see which one she does the best with. Personally I'm hoping she goes for the revolver, just for my piece of mind, but is she likes one of the semi-autos I'll just have to make sure she practices a lot and we work a lot on clearing and recovering from malfunctions.

 

[rwsmith]

Well, two reasons.....

Wow, amazing how quickly people jump to the old standby "limp wristing" for just about any handgun issue.

Light primer strikes cannot be caused by a weak grip. The grip has nothing to do with the internal workings of the gun. The striker travels the same distance no matter how you hold the gun.

.

One, it's the first thing you check.

Two It's only happening with the lady

Three Maybe the 'light primer strikes' aren't light primer strikes but some other mark such as a firing pin hole or something.

So though you are right that limp wrist isn't an answer to everything, it's the first thing that can be eliminated easily.

 

[speedyquad]

My wife had the same issues the first time that she shot her brand new and cleaned/lubed shield 9. She was not new to shooting as she has shot my sigma 40 and my 40c many times. She is actually a better shot than me.

I had no issues with it so I watched her shoot it again. Not exactly limpwristing, but more like grip placement on the smaller gun. A slight adjustment and th problem went away.

Two weeks later, I bought myself a shield 40. She shot that and had tighter groups so she carries the 40 and I got the 9.

 

[Rastoff]

So though you are right that limp wrist isn't an answer to everything, it's the first thing that can be eliminated easily.

Like I said back in post #19, I'll defer to your experience. However, no one has explained how "limp wristing" could cause this. There could be other explanations, though I don't know what they are.

So, can you, or anyone, offer up a theory about how a weak grip causes a light primer strike?

 

[DeathF.above]

Her 'soft grip' is firm enough to get a good extraction, feed a new round and put the pistol back into battery. But, It must be just soft enough to where the slide is ever so slightly off the round where the primer can't be reached by the striker enough to make it go bang. If she were to tap the back of the slide forward before each round it would fire every time. Funny she wouldn't get any other malfunctions besides light primer strikes. Idk.

 

[Rastoff]

...soft enough to where the slide is ever so slightly off the round where the primer can't be reached by the striker enough to make it go bang.

It's a good thought, but cannot be true. If the slide is forward enough to allow the striker to be released from the sear, the barrel will be fully up and locked in place. This physical action means the chamber cannot be any further from the breech face than it would under normal firing conditions.

If you can think of a way the chamber can be away from the breach face, even a tiny bit, and the gun still release the sear, I'm all ears.

 

[Rastoff]

shutter13,
Can you make these two measurements?

As you can see, I got 1.221" and 1.213" which leaves a .008" difference. Thus, if the barrel is as far forward as it can go, and we add another .02" for the base of the cartridge to be recessed into the chamber, this makes for a total of .01" that the primer could be away from the breach face.

I also measured the amount the striker protrudes through the striker hole. In my .40S&W gun it protrudes .046" which is enough to overcome the maximum total error in lock up that I showed in the last paragraph. I measured both a 9mm barrel and a .40S&W barrel and got exactly the same dimensions.

So, I'm curious to see what shutter13's measurements are for his Shield.

 

[shutter13]

shutter13,

Can you make these two measurements?

As you can see, I got 1.221" and 1.213" which leaves a .008" difference. Thus, if the barrel is as far forward as it can go, and we add another .02" for the base of the cartridge to be recessed into the chamber, this makes for a total of .01" that the primer could be away from the breach face.



I also measured the amount the striker protrudes through the striker hole. In my .40S&W gun it protrudes .046" which is enough to overcome the maximum total error in lock up that I showed in the last paragraph. I measured both a 9mm barrel and a .40S&W barrel and got exactly the same dimensions.



So, I'm curious to see what shutter13's measurements are for his Shield.

I don't have a pair of calipers to get that precise a measurement.

 

[one eye joe]

IMHO, YOUR WIFE WOULD ENJOY SHOOTING MILD .38SPL. LOADS OUT OF HER OWN 3" 686, RATHER THAN DEALING WITH THE FRUSTRATION OF TRYING TO SHOOT YOUR SHARP RECOILING .40 CALIBER SEMI-AUTO. ITS A VERY VERSATILE REVOLVER, THAT GIVES HER A WIDE RANGE OF AMMO OPTIONS, AND CAN BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE SHE NEEDS---TARGET SHOOTING, WOODS WALKING, HUNTING, SD / HD, OR CONCEALED CARRY. ITS A GREAT VALUE FOR THE MONEY, AND ALL OF THE GUN THAT SHE WILL EVVER NEED….




=

 

[rsrocket1]

Light strikes

I can tell you that both the M&P FS and Shields can and do allow you to cause the striker to release when the slide is not 100% closed. That does not mean it is out of battery. My M&P 40 FS and my Shield 9 does that with oversized lead bullets seated too far out sometimes.

I may be due to fat lead bullets, over snug cartridges, a dirty breechface, caked up extractor cavity, clogged extractor hook, weak guide rod spring, slightly long brass cases, limp wristing or a combination of these.

Anyone can repeat this on their own, but it's a little tricky.
Take a fired case (preferably with a firing pin mark right in the center of the primer). load it in an empty magazine and slowly/carefully chamber it as you close the slide. You have to be careful to ensure the case goes straight into the chamber without the aid of a bullet guiding the case. You might need a thin pick or screwdriver to help guide the case mouth into the barrel. This allows the rim to slide under the extractor hook as it is chambered. I am unable to simply "drop the slide" on an already chambered case (plus that's not a good thing to do to your extractor hook).

Once the case is 100% chambered, pull the slide back until you see the barrel hood slant down and form a gap in the back. At this point, if you pull the tirgger, you will have a "dead trigger". The gun will not fire out of battery. Good.

Next, allow the slide to move forward little by little while trying to pull the trigger. At some point before the slide is 100% closed, the trigger bar will engage the striker block, release the sear and the striker will hit the primer. You will see the slide jump forward a fraction of an inch and the barrel hood will jump up a few degrees to full horizontal.

When you extract the case, you will see a second primer strike off center of the original one and it will probably be anywhere from a light dimple to 2/3 the depth of the original strike.

If you have a light strike on the range, a rechambering of the cartridge will usually result in a successful shot. I've only had one cartridge which was never capable of being fired. When I brought it home and disassembled it, the powder was not ignited and the problem was that the brass was too long (!!) and it never allowed the slide to fully close.

I spoke with a national class IPSC shooter this past week and he said they used light recoil springs to prevent downward motion of the slide closing which takes the sights off target. Makes sense. The Shield requires a heavy spring. It makes sense that a weak grip can absorb the shock of the slide closing with can prevent the slide from moving that last 1%.

 

[Mcwsky09]

I'll have to check out my Shield 9 but I ran into light strikes on my Bodyguard 380 (with some aftermarket parts) which sell to be the result of pullng the trigger too slowly. In other words if I try to stage the trigger and slowly pull to break the shot very carefully I am more likely to get a light strike than if I sn the trigger quickly. I am not saying that this is for sure what is happening in my case but it seems that perhaps the speed of the hammer and this the amount of force transferred to the primer is slightly below the threshold necessary for detonation.
I do use my own reloads and have not done a lot of case trimming but in the case of the BG380 on the last range trip there was definitely a correction between speed of trigger pull and probability of light strikes.

 

[Rastoff]

...it seems that perhaps the speed of the hammer...

The M&P line are all striker fired guns. They do not have a hammer.

...there was definitely a correction between speed of trigger pull and probability of light strikes.

I'm not doubting you that this happened exactly as you say. But, I don't see how it could. The speed of the trigger has nothing to do with the release of the striker. It doesn't throw the striker back so, I don't see how the speed of trigger pull could affect the striker hitting the primer.

This is just another example of something happening that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[mccollom405]

Don't give up on the 40 Shield. That's my wife's EDC. It's her first and only gun. Practice, practice, practice, she shoots at least 100 rounds a week. Winchester white box or reloads. Never had failures so far. Knock on wood.