Now an LEO is charged with murder here...

[GaryS]

Doing CPR on a trauma victim is an exercise in futility. Where I worked, we stopped transporting those patients several years ago. I think the whole CPR thing, except that someone lied about doing it, is a total distraction from the larger issue of the shooting.

That said, if it's going to be done, the patient does have to be on his back and handcuffs behind the back would make that very difficult.

Speaking of handcuffs behind the back, I believe that's SOP in many departments. The optics aren't good, but that's what the PIO should be there to explain.

The police chief changed his comment to "first aid was administered", apparently after seeing the video. One officer did have on latex gloves, was he applying direct pressure to the wounds?
I was an EMT a long time ago , and we were always taught to get the victim on their back, preferably on a hard surface, in order to perform CPR with chest compressions. The exception being infant CPR, where you cradle the baby with one arm.
It would be kind of hard to do CPR on someone with his hands behind his back and in the prone position.

Maybe GaryS or Beemerguy can comment on that.

 

[ladder13]

You're absolutely right: The patient has to be flat on his back, on a hard surface if possible.

I did CPR on shooting victims many times in my career (never successfully, btw). I can't imagine performing CPR effectively on anyone who has his hands secured behind him...it simply won't work.

We were always happy to see the medics arrive.

 

[GaryS]

We were always happy to see the medics arrive.

That's funny we were usually happy to see the FD leave!

 

[CaptRon956]

I've seen the video's many times and still can't believe it, it feels surreal, how someone at random could be there filming this event while it unfolds and what appears to be obvious murder to me. Like I said, the video doesnt "feel" right.... it almost looks staged to me.

What I find most disturbing, is every news source online, CNN, MSNBC, ABC etc is digging into the officers past trying to dig up any kind of dirt they can find and post it yet when they talk about the victim, they dont mention anything much about his past, or history (if any) other than he was a loving family man... Jeez....

In the end, I still highly respect all LEO's & I hope there is more to this story but wow, that video tells it all doesnt it?

 

[ladder13]

That's funny we were usually happy to see the FD leave!

And left we did.

 

[bobcat]

I carried a weapon for 31 years in the BP/INS/CBP, and the shooting as shown in that video would not be in compliance with our use of force continuum. That's all I will comment on this subject, other than to hope Mr. Scott is at peace and in God's loving hands. I know how I would feel if this was my family member and it wouldn't be very Christian...

 

[PR24]

We watched the video in briefing at the behest of our Lt. On the surface, it's REALLY BAD. No articulable 'dangerous fleeing felon' + planting evidence = guaranteed prosecution.

Now, here's some other circumstances had they occurred would have changed things. If the suspect tried to use the Taser on the officer then the shooting is justified because the officer can be incapacitated and his weapon(s) can be taken and or used against him or others. Likewise, the bullets would be in his front and sides, not back. I did not see that however and some other info has come out that the officer had used the Taser on him and he grabbed it, then dropped it and ran. Even if the perp had the Taser in his hands and ran off with it, he has an impact weapon equivalent so it's really hard to justify shooting someone that isn't running off with a lethal weapon. What you have is aggravated assault on LE and theft.

Now, If the perp disarmed the officer of his sidearm and took off running especially towards citizens and the officer or other cops (or even an armed citizen) shot him, that would more than likely be a good shoot too. Think active shooter's, sword wielding maniacs etc. We can't have an armed fleeing felon a running amok in a city. Buuuut; baton/Taser's aren't the same as firearms.

The video I pretty damming. The right course of action would have been to case him, shove him down and cuff him. I personally did not see any justification what so ever for shooting him. The planting of evidence? Goes without saying.

 

[socrates007]

I carried a weapon for 31 years in the BP/INS/CBP, and the shooting as shown in that video would not be in compliance with our use of force continuum. That's all I will comment on this subject, other than to hope Mr. Scott is at peace and in God's loving hands. I know how I would feel if this was my family member and it wouldn't be very Christian...

Yes, I also pray that Mr. Scott is at peace and with God.

At the same time, I also pray that God serves justice to Michael Slager.

I am glad that you also feel the same as I do regarding if that were one of your family members who were murdered by the dirty cop, Michael Slager. It is very evil what he did (murder), and then trying to place an object by the victim to cover up his sin. I am so thankful that this incident was captured on video. I hope citizens everywhere film everything cops are doing these days. If you are a good and clean officer, then you have nothing to worry about. Only cops with bad intentions fear being filmed!

Please find this *** guilty of murder. PLEASE!

 

[Beemerguy53]

Doing CPR on a trauma victim is an exercise in futility. Where I worked, we stopped transporting those patients several years ago...

CPR on trauma victims is indeed a waste of time.

Every member of the Baltimore City Fire Department is cross-trained medically. When I was on the job (I retired a decade ago) some of the older fire suppression guys were First Responders, most of us were EMTs (myself included), and the newer firefighters were trained as Paramedics.

Fire suppression units then had at least one FF/PM assigned, and each unit carried a full array of Advanced Life Support equipment: IVs, defibrillator, backboards, etc., etc. We were required to initiate CPR on all patients in cardiac arrest, regardless of the reason for the cardiac arrest, with very limited exceptions (decapitation, rigor mortis has set in, etc.).

It made no sense much of the time, but we did it, even on those who were obviously not going to survive. (A close friend, a lieutenant in a busy engine company, was disciplined for failing to initiate CPR on a patient who had suffered a major gunshot wound to the head, and was missing much of his skull and brain.) In actual practice, once the medics arrived on scene, they would assess the patient, and if it was clear that there was no chance of reviving him, they would transport him to the closest hospital so he could be pronounced, rather than take him to a trauma center to continue a futile effort.

 

[ladder13]

I've seen the video's many times and still can't believe it, it feels surreal, how someone at random could be there filming this event while it unfolds and what appears to be obvious murder to me. Like I said, the video doesnt "feel" right.... it almost looks staged to me.

........................................................

In the end, I still highly respect all LEO's & I hope there is more to this story but wow, that video tells it all doesnt it?

With the proliferation of cell phones,body cams, and other devices, this will be the norm. As has been said by others, assume you're on video and act accordingly.

 

[the ringo kid]

The reason for the initial stop is irrelevant. The shooting did not follow from a broken tail light or lax child support payments. The shooting resulted from an attempt to violently evade arrest. Reportedly the deceased did not want to go to jail...who does? So he broke away, fought the police, a less lethal means of subduing him failed - the deceased being angry or stubborn or tough enough that the Taser had no effect on him - and then he was fleeing attempting to continue to avoid arrest.

At that point he was not a guy with a broken tail light. He was a dangerous fleeing felon once he resisted arrest and opted to flee and he was "stopped".

What I see is a city throwing this poor cop under the bus because that is what is best for business. No one has yet pulled up the relevant SC law about fleeing felons. My hunch is that this was a legal shooting.

This is actually classic police work as traditionally practiced in America for most of American history. Felon flees. Felon gets shot to prevent said flight. Case law in most states will tend to support this.

Was the dead man a felon? Well he was if he violently resisted arrest probably, by the act of violently resisting, etc.

Did he flee? Looks like he did.

You can chalk this one up to what was said on CBS evening News as well as on Bill O'reillys show--that--the man running was running because he had been busted some ten times--for not paying child support. So--IMO--and not knowing much else--I think he ran because he was afraid of being busted for the elevnth time--for failure to pay child support.Bad decisions all round on both sides. Also--the dead guy was a Navy vet and might have been suffering from PTSD--as was only stated on the CBS Evening news.

 

[the ringo kid]

I think that whenever an LEO pulls somebody over the cameras start rolling right away.

Ive a story on this one I witnessed on Thuesday.

I was doing an exercise walk when I came upon a bus stop with two benches. The three occupants of those two benches--were formerinmate--daddy--and the two sons.Well,to make a story as short as i can--former inmate daddy--was watching a motorcycle policeman ticketing someone in a car for some violation.Said former inmate daddy--was blatantly lying and frightning its kids on the entire thing.Sayig things like the cop was done giving tickets that driver didnt deserve--that he::the motorcycle policeman:: was going to come give them tickets for sitting at the bus stop.

I shook my head in the no-no fashion--hoping the kids would learn something--but of course not. In the end--the motorcycle policman had finished his traffic stop--and turned and rode by where those kids were--and smiled and waved at them. The former inmate daddy-of course--said to his kids to ignore the cop and that he way lying to them pretending to be friendly and not to trust any cops.

The daddy then turned its attention to me and tried to start an argument that almost resulted in a fist fight. That gave me all excuse I needed--to try to teach the boys something over the cursing objections of loud-and foul-mouthed former inmate daddy.

AsI had no intentions of saying anything to the former inmate daddy in the first place--I was dragged into the situation thanks to his hot-head and trying to show how tough he was in front of the two boys.

Forgot to mention, former inmate daddy couldnt get his cellphone camera to work.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Ive a story on this one I witnessed on Thuesday.

I was doing an exercise walk when I came upon a bus stop with two benches. The three occupants of those two benches--were formerinmate--daddy--and the two sons.Well,to make a story as short as i can--former inmate daddy--was watching a motorcycle policeman ticketing someone in a car for some violation.Said former inmate daddy--was blatantly lying and frightning its kids on the entire thing.Sayig things like the cop was done giving tickets that driver didnt deserve--that he::the motorcycle policeman:: was going to come give them tickets for sitting at the bus stop.

I shook my head in the no-no fashion--hoping the kids would learn something--but of course not. In the end--the motorcycle policman had finished his traffic stop--and turned and rode by where those kids were--and smiled and waved at them. The former inmate daddy-of course--said to his kids to ignore the cop and that he way lying to them pretending to be friendly and not to trust any cops.

The daddy then turned its attention to me and tried to start an argument that almost resulted in a fist fight. That gave me all excuse I needed--to try to teach the boys something over the cursing objections of loud-and foul-mouthed former inmate daddy.

AsI had no intentions of saying anything to the former inmate daddy in the first place--I was dragged into the situation thanks to his hot-head and trying to show how tough he was in front of the two boys.

Forgot to mention, former inmate daddy couldnt get his cellphone camera to work.

Ringo, in modern American thug culture, the worst thing you can do is 'disrespect' someone by failing to endorse and approve of his thuggish behavior...that can actually get you killed in some places.

The irony, of course, is that those who so stridently demand your 'respect' have never in their lives shown any respect for themselves or anyone else.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Case law has held that to shoot a fleeing felon, he must present a serious, articulable, clear and present danger to the community.

Not exactly. What you are referencing is the socalled Garner standard, taught in most police academies. However, competent state courts have upheld, without challenge, that Garner was a civil case and not a criminal case and did not automatically over rule a state's pre existint common law or statutory law rule regarding fleeing felons. In Michigan the State Supreme Court in 1990 held that the Michigan common law fleeing felon rule was still in effect and that citizens could still shoot fleeing felons to prevent flight. There was no test of immediate danger at common law.

Thus the question is, does SC law still have the common law fleeing felon rule? If yes, then was this a fleeing felon? If he was, then various state laws have complications about necessity to stop with lethal force. As less lethal force already failed...

This is a classic "good" shoot of a fleeing felon under the common law as existed in the United States since its inception and existed even earlier under English law.

The same constitutional and legal framework that spawned the right to bear arms spawned the fleeing felon rule. An attack on the fleeing felon rule is tantamount to an attack on our entire legal system and especially the right to bear arms. It is also a deliberate attack on state rights. Which is why the usual suspects are all over this case and the mainstream media continue to run the video.

A video I might add which we have only the word of the man who took it was not edited. To my knowledge there has been no scrutiny and no expert examinations of the video itself.

There have been deliberate efforts to prevent fund raising for the officer's defense.

I have not seen as blatant a job of media social programming since Sandy Hook, only this time it seems most people are swallowing it.

 

[the ringo kid]

Ringo, in modern American thug culture, the worst thing you can do is 'disrespect' someone by failing to endorse and approve of his thuggish behavior...that can actually get you killed in some places.

The irony, of course, is that those who so stridently demand your 'respect' have never in their lives shown any respect for themselves or anyone else.

I had to leave alot out but--your correct--it is the thug culture. During our less than stellar conversation, I pointed out that since he made two veiled threats at someone ""Dying Young"" that I could make a civilians arrest ::with a policeman presant::and or I could easily dialnine one one and he would be arrested for making two death threats. I also pointed out a law that then-_Gov George Bush signed into law--when I was still in LE--that if an inmate or former inmate kills an active duty or former LEO--they would get the automatic finishing of any original sentence they had and also the death penalty. I also pointed out that if I died? my family would get my insurance money.I also pointed out during our less than stellar conversation--that he impressed me not and that the location we were at--had several cameras that over look the entire area and that he would soon be back at home--as an inmate.

In person I dont look like much but--I dont intimidate easily.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Do NOT fight with the POLEEECE. Never turns out good. There will be a reckoning eventually.

 

[Warren Sear]

A very alarming video, hard to understand the actions of that officer.

A broken tail light led to that?

No, watch the video again. The broken tail light had nothing to do with it.

Justified or not, resisting arrest is what lead to the shooting.

 

[cololab]

I carried a weapon for 31 years in the BP/INS/CBP, and the shooting as shown in that video would not be in compliance with our use of force continuum. That's all I will comment on this subject, other than to hope Mr. Scott is at peace and in God's loving hands. I know how I would feel if this was my family member and it wouldn't be very Christian...

35 years behind a badge for me. Absent something not seen on the video, on the surface this would not appear to be a justified exercise of the use of deadly force policy of my agency. The facts should determine the outcome of all this, but that video is compelling/damning. I feel both for the victim and his family and for all the good women and men in law enforcement who will suffer the backlash that is usually forthcoming after an unfortunate incident like this.

 

[BAM-BAM]

CPhil......Let see if I can stay out of trouble this time!...LOL

On "Morning Joe" this morning the victim's "Family's" Lawyer ........ made a comment.


I will have to paraphrase here:

He stated,in answer to a question, "The incident started in a parking lot about 100ft from the shooting scene ......talked about being denied access to the car; to see if there is a broken tail light.......

Then he said (what I heard);

"..... the video starts with them on the ground......"

There was no follow-up on this comment/statement by the Lawyer; from any of the 5-7 people on the panel.

My reaction was "What!!!" That comment by the Lawyer; if correct.... may have an impact on what is otherwise ,to me, an unfathomable action by the Officer.....

Are we not seeing the whole video?"Or are we being fed a scenario similar to the edited version of "Zimmerman call to 911" that was broadcast on one of the Networks!!!

I try not to look to the news media for facts...... and expect to get all the facts.

While the video we have seen speaks for itself......I'm not going to draw any definitive conclusions from what I see and am told by the "news" media.


Edit: New report in "The Guardian" that; "Feidin Santana, a bystander who filmed the shooting on his cellphone, told NBC on Wednesday evening that the pair were struggling on the ground before he began recording."

 

[HorizontalMike]

... ...Calm deliberate shooting like at the range, at the back of a guy who is quite clearly not a threat to him, then he looks around, then calmly walks over talking into his radio. Then the business of dropping the item next to the suspect. I hope there's more to this, but....

I agree that the sheer calmness of the officer during and after the shooting, including the retrieval of what may be his taser, gives me the impression that this officer may be way too used to pushing the rules/laws of engagement when interacting with civilians in the real world. THAT bothers me a lot.

We may finally starting to see what has been in plain sight for decades. We'll see as time passes...