Smith and Wesson Shield Malfunction and Customer Service

[Shield_Malfunction]

Youtube link:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS5Qop8Fe8E[/ame]

I bought the Smith and Wesson 40 S&W Shield without manual safety in December 2014. The backplate slides down out of the slide as seen in the video and prevents the gun from going into battery. The gun has been sent to customer service 3 times and as of April 2015 the same malfunction is present.

The first 2 times I sent the gun in myself using the local FedEx office. The third time I had my local gun store send the gun in, while also getting their Smith and Wesson representative involved. I also requested a new gun or refund the 3rd time I sent it in.

I am sending the gun in a 4th time, I have strongly requested a new gun or a refund at this point. I was told by customer service that they cannot make any promises. At this point I am extremely disappointed with Smith and Wesson customer service.

 

[PROnSHIELD]

Clearly in my mind this can only result from the failure of one or maybe two involved parts...both of which should be easily identifiable for replacement and curing of the problem.

Either the detent is missing or was not machined deep enough on the inside face of the rear striker cover plate...or...the striker assembly is at fault if it does not fully engage the detent of the rear striker cover plate.

Either way, sorry to hear of your issues...hopefully S&W will replace the defective part/s and get it back to you.

BTW...I've heard mostly bad stuff about Underwood Ammo...have all your failures occurred when using that stuff?

 

[Old cop]

FWIW every problem I've heard about is with the .40 cal. model.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

Clearly in my mind this can only result from the failure of one or maybe two involved parts...both of which should be easily identifiable for replacement and curing of the problem.

Either the detent is missing or was not machined deep enough on the inside face of the rear striker cover plate...or...the striker assembly is at fault if it does not fully engage the detent of the rear striker cover plate.

Either way, sorry to hear of your issues...hopefully S&W will replace the defective part/s and get it back to you.

BTW...I've heard mostly bad stuff about Underwood Ammo...have all your failures occurred when using that stuff?

The failures occur with full power ammunition, it does not occur with light factory/target ammunition.

I have heard good things about Underwood, they seem to make high quality products.

 

[Fastbolt]

Does this happen when you shoot Winchester, Remington, Federal, Speer or Hornady .40 S&W ammunition?

Their 155gr loads list factory velocities running from 1140fps up to 1210fps.

1300fps for a 155gr .40 would seem to be a bit of a screaming load.

I stopped running most 155gr loads out of my own .40's some years ago. They're harder on the shooter than 180/165gr loads, and it's been noted by some of the gun companies (armorer classes) that they can be harder on guns, even full-size duty guns.

 

[ATF]

The backplate is held in position securely by the striker assembly there is probably an issue with the striker. Remove the striker and check all the parts are present and in order.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I agree. It's not supposed to do that . . .

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

Does this happen when you shoot Winchester, Remington, Federal, Speer or Hornady .40 S&W ammunition?

Their 155gr loads list factory velocities running from 1140fps up to 1210fps.

1300fps for a 155gr .40 would seem to be a bit of a screaming load.

I stopped running most 155gr loads out of my own .40's some years ago. They're harder on the shooter than 180/165gr loads, and it's been noted by some of the gun companies (armorer classes) that they can be harder on guns, even full-size duty guns.

This does not happen with light factory ammo. This does happen with full power self defense loads.

This has happened with ammunition that runs completely fine in my fathers Ruger SR40c.

If the problem was a failure to feed, failure to eject, etc. then I would say I need to try a different ammo. However, in this circumstance the damn gun is literally falling apart with SAMI spec ammo. There are no pressure signs on the brass (that is smiles/bulges, primers are a poor pressure indicator in handguns), no abnormal chronograph readings, etc. This is not an ammunition problem, it is a gun problem.

I prefer to carry full power 40 S&W ammo, and that is what this is. It is not over SAMI spec, 155 xtp at 1300 fps is within pressure limits.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

The backplate is held in position securely by the striker assembly there is probably an issue with the striker. Remove the striker and check all the parts are present and in order.

Not being a smart *** here, but the factory should have done that the 3 times they have supposedly "fixed" the gun. I did not want to disassemble the gun past a field strip after the first go around, because I didn't want to screw something up in the slide/striker assembly.

 

[ATF]

Not being a smart *** here, but the factory should have done that the 3 times they have supposedly "fixed" the gun. I did not want to disassemble the gun past a field strip after the first go around, because I didn't want to screw something up in the slide/striker assembly.

Yes you're right but it only takes a few minutes. Plenty of vids on YT how to remove the striker super easy.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

Yes you're right but it only takes a few minutes. Plenty of vids on YT how to remove the striker super easy.

Checked it out after the 1st time they "fixed" it and it seemed fine to me, wasn't going to disassemble further than a field strip after that secondary to warranty service issues.

I am done defending the gun, I have given them over 3 months and 3 opportunities to fix it. There is something wrong with this gun and they cannot figure it out. That means I need a new gun or a refund. My fathers Ruger SR40c runs like a sewing machine on ammunition that causes this thing to fall apart, literally.

 

[ATF]

Ask them for a new complete slide they should comply.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

Ask them for a new complete slide they should comply.

I feel that a refund or completely new firearm is a fair request after 3 months and 3 attempts to fix the problem.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Well, I have seen that on 1911s before, and the problem was solved decades ago at Gunsite when they began press-fitting the firing pin stop.

I have never heard or seen such on any of the striker-fired Glock, S&W M&P or similar.

This is definitely a bad situation, and if it cannot be remedied, you certainly should not carry that pistol, at least not with that ammunition.

I do hope you will return here to tell us what happened after it is returned to you from S&W.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

Well, I have seen that on 1911s before, and the problem was solved decades ago at Gunsite when they began press-fitting the firing pin stop.

I have never heard or seen such on any of the striker-fired Glock, S&W M&P or similar.

This is definitely a bad situation, and if it cannot be remedied, you certainly should not carry that pistol, at least not with that ammunition.

I do hope you will return here to tell us what happened after it is returned to you from S&W.

I plan to. Probably going to a G27 after this ordeal, carrying a LCP and/or SP101 357 mag at this point.

 

[Fastbolt]

This does not happen with light factory ammo. This does happen with full power self defense loads.

This has happened with ammunition that runs completely fine in my fathers Ruger SR40c.

If the problem was a failure to feed, failure to eject, etc. then I would say I need to try a different ammo. However, in this circumstance the damn gun is literally falling apart with SAMI spec ammo. There are no pressure signs on the brass (that is smiles/bulges, primers are a poor pressure indicator in handguns), no abnormal chronograph readings, etc. This is not an ammunition problem, it is a gun problem.

I prefer to carry full power 40 S&W ammo, and that is what this is. It is not over SAMI spec, 155 xtp at 1300 fps is within pressure limits.

I don't know what you categorize to be "full power defense loads" versus " light factory ammo" when it comes to 155gr loads.

The major American makers provide stout, full power duty/service ammo using 155gr bullet weights. (They're the ones running to one side or the other of 1200fps.) What "light loads" are you talking about in the 155gr offerings?

A couple of the big names have provided some reduced velocity 165gr .40 loads for LE at one time or another, when requested, and when the 155gr loads were being phased out by a major Gov agency, a reduced velocity 135gr load was developed upon request (1200fps with an allowable +/- of 40fps, as I recall), but I don't ever remember a "light" 155gr being marketed.

The subcompact Shield is among the lightest & thinnest plastic .40's on the market, coming in at 19oz. That's quite a bit lighter than the compact 27+oz SR40c.

Dunno what's going on with your Shield 40. No way to know if it's a slide machining issue, or just the plastic slide end cap and/or striker guide not maintaining sufficient contact during recoil. I agree that after 3 attempts to resolve the same issue, it's not unreasonable to ask for a replacement gun ... unless the company determines the problem is unique to the hotter ammo being used.

With higher power ammunition can come the potential for increased slide velocities. Have you told S&W about the custom ammo you're using? I have no idea if they have any experience with any of the smaller custom ammo companies. I know (have been told by them) that they commonly test major American brands and bullet weights of hollowpoints, of the types reported commonly used by their LE customers.

I own half a dozen .40's, myself, of which 5 of them are either compact or subcompact (no Shield 40, although I've tried a T&E model using our 180gr duty ammo). Carried a full-size and a compact .40 as issued weapons at different times, too.

One of my compact models, a 4040PD, has seemingly exhibited a particular preference for the "hot" Winchester 155gr STHP. That load is listed at 1205fps (4" barrel), although the Ranger RA40155HP 155gr JHP (developed for gov sales when the 155's were popular) is listed at 1210fps from a 4" barrel. I don't have any left. I may, someday, if the price is right, pick up some more of the W-W STHP 155gr for that gun. Maybe. In the meantime, I still have a decent supply of the W-W RA40TA 165gr load remaining from when I was using it in other .40's.

The rest of my .40's get whatever of the big name 180/165gr full-power loads as may be issued/approved. I don't try to turn my .40's into a 10mm.

Good luck with your situation. Let us know what the company does for you.

Best.

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

I don't know what you categorize to be "full power defense loads" versus " light factory ammo" when it comes to 155gr loads.

The major American makers provide stout, full power duty/service ammo using 155gr bullet weights. (They're the ones running to one side or the other of 1200fps.) What "light loads" are you talking about in the 155gr offerings?

A couple of the big names have provided some reduced velocity 165gr .40 loads for LE at one time or another, when requested, and when the 155gr loads were being phased out by a major Gov agency, a reduced velocity 135gr load was developed upon request (1200fps with an allowable +/- of 40fps, as I recall), but I don't ever remember a "light" 155gr being marketed.

The subcompact Shield is among the lightest & thinnest plastic .40's on the market, coming in at 19oz. That's quite a bit lighter than the compact 27+oz SR40c.

Dunno what's going on with your Shield 40. No way to know if it's a slide machining issue, or just the plastic slide end cap and/or striker guide not maintaining sufficient contact during recoil. I agree that after 3 attempts to resolve the same issue, it's not unreasonable to ask for a replacement gun ... unless the company determines the problem is unique to the hotter ammo being used.

With higher power ammunition can come the potential for increased slide velocities. Have you told S&W about the custom ammo you're using? I have no idea if they have any experience with any of the smaller custom ammo companies. I know (have been told by them) that they commonly test major American brands and bullet weights of hollowpoints, of the types reported commonly used by their LE customers.

I own half a dozen .40's, myself, of which 5 of them are either compact or subcompact (no Shield 40, although I've tried a T&E model using our 180gr duty ammo). Carried a full-size and a compact .40 as issued weapons at different times, too.

One of my compact models, a 4040PD, has seemingly exhibited a particular preference for the "hot" Winchester 155gr STHP. That load is listed at 1205fps (4" barrel), although the Ranger RA40155HP 155gr JHP (developed for gov sales when the 155's were popular) is listed at 1210fps from a 4" barrel. I don't have any left. I may, someday, if the price is right, pick up some more of the W-W STHP 155gr for that gun. Maybe. In the meantime, I still have a decent supply of the W-W RA40TA 165gr load remaining from when I was using it in other .40's.

The rest of my .40's get whatever of the big name 180/165gr full-power loads as may be issued/approved. I don't try to turn my .40's into a 10mm.

Good luck with your situation. Let us know what the company does for you.

Best.

Blazer brass and other similar offerings is what I am referring to as light loads or standard factory ammunition. A 155 XTP at 1300 fps is still in 40 S&W territory, this malfunction also happened with warm 180 gr loads. Yes these loads are hot, but they are within SAMMI spec, the gun should not fall apart.

I own a 10mm myself and I don't expect the 40 S&W to be 10mm (although with the right powder the 40 can get close to 10mm). The problem I am having is the nature of the malfunction. If the gun was having failure to feed, or failure to eject, I would try different ammo and accept that the gun didn't like that ammo.

This circumstance is different. This gun was purchased as a CCW that I may have to depend on. There are no pressure signs on the brass or other indications that it is the ammunitions fault. This ammo runs fine in a SR40c. This is a gun problem, correlations or patterns with one ammo or another does not change the fact that the gun is broken/is falling apart.

 

[tipoc]

I found this item on another forum and have followed it.

1. The gun should not fall apart. It should have been repaired or addressed right away by S&W.

2. The manual for the Shield (pages 9-11) guns advises against using +P or +P+ ammo in their guns. Officially (according to SAMMI specs) there is no +P 40 round. However Buffalo Bore features the same round at the same velocity as Underwood and lists it as a +P round.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=115

3. A 155 gr. round from Buffalo Bore or Underwood is considered hot for the 40 S&W from any size handgun much less a lightly built back up piece. The ammo may not have shown signs of being over pressure but experience tells us that firing this ammo in a small pocket piece like the Shield will lead to it's destruction in time. At a minimum accelerated wear.

4. The Shield is not a full size gun and neither is it a compact handgun. It is a pocket piece. A gun that fits the same role as a light weight J frame, a Charter Arms, or the old Colt Cobra. Experience tells us that these guns, in the Shield class, do not make good pieces for hog hunting. Neither are they particularly controllable with heavy duty ammo.

I hope they make you right on your gun but any gun in this class will soon beat itself to death with the ammo you seem to favor.

It's important to match the ammo to the task and to the gun chosen for that.

tipoc

 

[Shield_Malfunction]

I found this item on another forum and have followed it.

1. The gun should not fall apart. It should have been repaired or addressed right away by S&W.

2. The manual for the Shield (pages 9-11) guns advises against using +P or +P+ ammo in their guns. Officially (according to SAMMI specs) there is no +P 40 round. However Buffalo Bore features the same round at the same velocity as Underwood and lists it as a +P round.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=115

3. A 155 gr. round from Buffalo Bore or Underwood is considered hot for the 40 S&W from any size handgun much less a lightly built back up piece. The ammo may not have shown signs of being over pressure but experience tells us that firing this ammo in a small pocket piece like the Shield will lead to it's destruction in time. At a minimum accelerated wear.

4. The Shield is not a full size gun and neither is it a compact handgun. It is a pocket piece. A gun that fits the same role as a light weight J frame, a Charter Arms, or the old Colt Cobra. Experience tells us that these guns, in the Shield class, do not make good pieces for hog hunting. Neither are they particularly controllable with heavy duty ammo.

I hope they make you right on your gun but any gun in this class will soon beat itself to death with the ammo you seem to favor.

It's important to match the ammo to the task and to the gun chosen for that.

tipoc

1. Agreed. I was patient. I gave them 3 opportunities before posting the issue on forums.

2. This is not a failure to feed or failure to eject, aka common malfunction. The cartridges are not exploding in the firearm blasting the magazine out of the gun resulting in a KABOOM or case failure. Different powders result in different velocities, SAMMI spec is based on pressure, not velocity. This malfunction has also occurred with ammo at a lower power factor, that is 180 grain ammo that chrono'd at ~1050 fps. Both ammos that caused the shield to literally fall apart ran great in a SR40C. SAMMI spec is based on pressure, not velocity. Additionally, no pressure signs were observed on brass.

3. Don't care. A gun failing after 2 rounds is an absolute failure, unacceptable for a defensive weapon. A clearable malfunction can be blamed on ammo that is too weak or too hot, a gun falling apart is a broken gun. We aren't talking about peening after thousands of rounds, frame wear, failure to feed, or failure to eject. THE GUN IS LITERALLY COMING APART, THE SLIDE ASSEMBLY IS DISASSEMBLING ITSELF AFTER FIRING A CARTRIDGE after less than a mag of ammo. This phenomenon was explained to customer service and they have never blamed the ammunition, for good reason. This malfunction is a gun problem, not an ammo problem. I realize this and customer service realizes this, lets move on past the ammo.

4. Again, don't care. My CCW pieces don't fall apart on good ammo. If they do, they go back and get fixed. If they don't get fixed then I want a new one. Hopefully it is fixed this time with a new slide assembly, the person I spoke with seemed confident he found the problem. I don't run this stuff (hot carry ammo) all the time, I shoot a lot. That being said this is just not acceptable, I'm hoping it is fixed this time, I am being optimistic. The gentleman I spoke to is sending a couple free mags and says I will be happy with the repair, I will update after I get to the range the next couple weeks.

 

[randyr5]

IMO, it's either the striker assembly or the channel that it rides in. Something is causing the plastic "striker sleeve" to be stuck in the forward position after firing, disengaging itself from the rear cover plate and causing the plate to move. It would be nice if we could see a picture of the striker assembly.