Interesting story about police m&p pistol contract

[Iwant2shootlikehickock45]

Iowa agency returns 800 handguns from contract under review

 

[KEN L]

Oh geez, what next?!

 

[Iwant2shootlikehickock45]

Someone there must be a glock fanboy

 

[Saudade]

They're not the first.

DPS Suspends Use of New Handgun Over "Concerns" | The Texas Tribune

 

[scooter123]

Those two stories are some of the worst examples of Investigative Journalism I've ever seen. Really, the guns were moving a couple of Microns ????????? Either someone fed the reporter a boat load of bunk to see if the reporter would put in in print or the reporter is a complete moron. Actually, in either case the reporter is a moron.

As for the Iowa story, reading between the lines it appears to be a politically motivated Witch Hunt. Seriously, what State Agency would bring in retired former investigators to do a job that they are already paying a salary to full time employees to do?

 

[JAMMAN]

2 microns is almost a ten thousandth of an inch. If you are making ABEC7 bearings it might matter, otherwise it doesn't. 0.00007874 of an inch.

 

[shutupdata113]

Psssh...who cares

 

[ATF]

Sig and Glock are very competitive in the LE market and will try anything to get ahead but that's not personal it's just business. Cops should buy their own guns IMHO so they can get what suits them.

 

[Old cop]

Many years ago my agency replaced our aging Model 15 w/the newer stainless revolvers (forgot the model number), fixed sight, thirty-eight. A good number of them had timing problems that could not be repaired by our range crew and had to be returned to the factory. By contrast when we replaced the stainless revolvers with Glock pistols in the mid '80s there were almost no problems out of the box.

 

[Doug M.]

Probably the M64 of some dash variant. As for Glocks of the Mid 80s, that was when they were at their best. The first couple generations of their 9mms were just outstanding. They've gone through some ups and downs in design and QC since then.

The story does not make sense. I think what was really meant is a magazine disconnect, so the pistol cannot be fired without a magazine fully inserted. I don't think that is generally available on the M&P line, but I can't recall. Much as I find responding to public records requests a pain, this story shows what happens when public records law are weak. I can't tell beans about what's going on, and this is a big deal.

I agree with ATF, that generally there should be an approved list and an allowance, with cops getting what they want to use. There are specs on which I would insist, of course, but the silly uniformity/appearance fetish of some agencies, and state agencies tend to be the worst and completely out of control, is simply unacceptable. I can say confidently that although I think the .40S&W is over rated at best, if I were to have to carry for some reason, the M&P would be the first choice by a long way. I don't recall ever hearing of a generalized set of problems with them from anyone.

 

[Rastoff]

I find it interesting that the story in the OP doesn't say what the issue with the guns was. It just said that some officers had functionality concerns.

The story from Texas is old news.

I suspect that both stories are more about politics or internal fraud than the actual guns themselves.

I think what was really meant is a magazine disconnect, so the pistol cannot be fired without a magazine fully inserted. I don't think that is generally available on the M&P line, but I can't recall.

OK, I can help you with that. Looking at the M&P line and reading hundreds of threads on this site shows us that many models have the mag disconnect. It's actually quite common and I have two M&Ps with the feature.

 

[MyDads38]

I just read the Iowa story. Seems politically oriented to me. If they were already carrying S&W sidearms, why wouldn't you want to stay with something familiar? I would think that they have at least a decent/good track record with current firearms. At $360 each for the new firearms, minus any credit with trade-ins; looks like a pretty good deal to me.

There's always a chance of someone receiving "kick backs" or whatever you want to call it, and if there was something that would jeopardize the safety of the officers, then that should definitely be addressed! $5,000 each for the 2 retirees to investigate this? Hmmm, don't know about that one. I'm hoping the 3 officers on admin. leave aren't being used as "scape goats" to cover up what's really happening behind the scenes.

 

[Saudade]

<snip> I think what was really meant is a magazine disconnect, so the pistol cannot be fired without a magazine fully inserted. I don't think that is generally available on the M&P line, but I can't recall.

My FS and Compact came with mag disconnects. Before they dropped from the Roster, they were the only ones generally available to CA residents.

 

[shawn mccarver]

There have been instances where every single Glock was returned almost immediately upon receipt. In one instnce, the department armorer did a standard armorer test taught in the Glock armorer's class. When shaking the slide back and forth with the firing pin safety depressed (the slide is off the gun for this test), the armorer is supposed to hear the firing pin freely slide back and forth. Every gun failed the test, and was sent back. Glock's response was to change the teaching in the armorer's class to eliminate that test. So, it not only happens to S&W, but to others as well.

 

[Doug M.]

I live and learn.

That said, I am not so sure that the disconnect is all that useful now. Back when the incidents occurred in which that option was at least arguably a lifesaver (and I am not sure I would be able or willing to degrade my performance in a physical fight over the gun to hit the release), there really were not any good quality security holsters, and retention training was poor. Further, although BUGS were common in some places, they were not as common as now, and we also did not have the broad explicit understanding that the disarm attempt was a lethal threat. If I were to divert a hand and my attention from the conflict over the duty pistol, by far the right answer is to retrieve the BUG and shoot the offender in the face or ear as many times as needed.

 

[N4KVE]

Look what the highway boys have to deal with in Florida.
.45 GAP Gen4 Glocks and the Florida Highway Patrol

 

[federali]

The magazine disconnect, mostly as it affects the Browning HP, has been the subject of thousands of threads and people never seem to tire of belaboring the issue.

While at the FBI Academy at Quantico, there's a really nice chunk of mortar missing from a wall of the gun cleaning room where someone forgot to clear the chamber of his Glock (no disconnect) and discharged the round into the wall.

Municipal contracts have always been subject to the suspicion of irregularity. This was not a massive contract with lots of room to pad expenses in order to conceal improper payments to purchasers. In my old agency, accepting anything more than a cup of coffee (hold the donut) could land you 30 days on the beach or outright dismissal.

 

[bullfrog1108]

There have been instances where every single Glock was returned almost immediately upon receipt. In one instnce, the department armorer did a standard armorer test taught in the Glock armorer's class. When shaking the slide back and forth with the firing pin safety depressed (the slide is off the gun for this test), the armorer is supposed to hear the firing pin freely slide back and forth. Every gun failed the test, and was sent back. Glock's response was to change the teaching in the armorer's class to eliminate that test. So, it not only happens to S&W, but to others as well.

They are still teaching that technique at least in the armorer school I took 2 weeks ago!

 

[S&WIowegan]

I live in Iowa but have no special knowledge of the issue here. I strongly suspect this is Glock raising hell because they lost out. The allegations assert the RFPs were biased by requiring a magazine safety. Glock apparently didn't have that model at the time(I believe they do now). My guess is they're angling to have a new round of bids.

Unfortunately, the DPS is run by a woman lawyer who is pure bureaucrat, never a LEO. She is wildly over-reacting to a common bitching by the losing bidder(s). She may love getting her name in the paper.

Personally, I would never want a duty gun I couldn't fire if needed during a reload. I mean really...does this make sense to you LEOs on the board?

 

[LVSteve]

I live in Iowa but have no special knowledge of the issue here. I strongly suspect this is Glock raising hell because they lost out. The allegations assert the RFPs were biased by requiring a magazine safety. Glock apparently didn't have that model at the time(I believe they do now). My guess is they're angling to have a new round of bids.

Unfortunately, the DPS is run by a woman lawyer who is pure bureaucrat, never a LEO. She is wildly over-reacting to a common bitching by the losing bidder(s). She may love getting her name in the paper.

Personally, I would never want a duty gun I couldn't fire if needed during a reload. I mean really...does this make sense to you LEOs on the board?

You are concerned with being able shoot someone but the lawyers and elected officials are worried about liability when a gun is handled badly. Any extra "safety" wins points with them, so guess who wins in the long run?