Not news, but no more work on Gen 3 guns from factory

[housedog]

Probably not news to most here, several other posts have cited this fact, but we are completely on our own now. Just received this correspondence to my inquiry today from S&W about sending in my 4563TSW for some simple work. Fortunately Karl Sokol, Chestnut Mtn. Sports, is still happy to do this work and he does it very well.

Subject: custom shop work?
Dear Customer,
The Performance Center no longer performs that operation on that model. Some things have been eliminated due to the older gunsmiths retiring.
Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, XXX

> ====== Your Inquiry ======
> Hi, I own a 4563TSW that I would like to send in for some work. I would like to have the rail removed, have an action job, is this possible? Do you still work on these guns in the performance shop?
>
> thanks
>

 

[Fastbolt]

Just think of all the talent and experience that walks out the PC's door with Vito's retirement (pending or already happened?).

I think it was last month that 5-6 folks retired from the factory who had been there since the 70's. More to go within the next 2-3 years. Lots of institutional knowledge retiring.

 

[TTSH]

Just think of all the talent and experience that walks out the PC's door with Vito's retirement (pending or already happened?).

I think it was last month that 5-6 folks retired from the factory who had been there since the 70's. More to go within the next 2-3 years. Lots of institutional knowledge retiring.

It's sad. Just plain sad.

 

[Truman]

So much for customer service!

 

[armorer951]

If they "valued their customers" as they said in the note, they would not have let all that experience go out the door without having some "in house" training to pass the knowledge along to the new guys.
What a shame.

 

[Mainsail]

I'm confused. The custom shop isn't going to work on the 3rd gens, ok I get that. But will S&W still perform warranty work if a part fails? I thought these things had a lifetime warranty, and they're still alive.

 

[03Fatboy]

Assuming you sent that as an email? I would bet you get a different response if you called CS, its worth a shot. My guess, they may not mess with the rail, but would be surprised if they didn't do trigger work anymore.

 

[RSBH44]

It's sad. Just plain sad.

Sad? Perhaps, but everybody deserves to finally be able to retire. What is Truly sad is all that knowledge was either, not passed down to a new generation of craftsmen or they were told not to bother to pass it on as it will no longer be required knowledge. In the end, it is they, S&W who will eventually suffer from that business decision. You only need to look at Colt for an example.

 

[Fastbolt]

I'm confused. The custom shop isn't going to work on the 3rd gens, ok I get that. But will S&W still perform warranty work if a part fails? I thought these things had a lifetime warranty, and they're still alive.

There's a difference between the custom shop services and the factory's repair services. AFAIK, the bulk of the 3rd gen warranty repair was moved to the Houlton plant several years ago (along with the 3rd gen production for any LE orders made by existing 3rd gen agency customers).

Kind of like how they broke up the assembly/production cells and some repair techs that worked on the SW99's, but are still supporting warranty repairs for any that surface. I was told the bulk of the spare (retail sale) parts had been shipped over to the new Walther import company, but they kept some in-house parts stock against any warranty need.

It might also be wise to bear in mind that while S&W has usually been pretty liberal in their interpretation of their warranty support policy, the limited lifetime warranty service policy was only applied to commercial guns sometime in the early/middle 90's, and was specifically stated to apply to the original owner. They did make some exceptions for some used guns recycled and sold with warranties (Demo, T&E guns, etc.)

I'd heartily agree that in a perfect world it would be great if all institutional knowledge and support was forever passed down, but that's not how the world (or business) works.

Try getting one of the big car companies to sell you all the parts needed for repair of 60's & 70's (and even some later) cars, or take your older model computers and software from the 80's & 90's to the companies and ask for replacement hardware & software.

How about those older 39/59 pistols, or the pre-war S&W revolvers? Sometimes the only support available for something that "old" is supported by aftermarket vendors and companies.

Sad, but that's often how it works.

I often wish I'd stocked up on even more older parts for the 3rd gen and 99 series guns, as I've had a much harder time getting some of the lesser used (or needed) parts and assemblies by the time I got around to thinking about back-filling some of my personally purchased & owned armorer supplies.

Fortunately, I've seldom needed any of the spare/repair parts I do have put back.

I miss talking with some of the older S&W folks, though, especially the ones that were around and involved in the early AIP (auto improvement program). Not that many left. It was handy to be able to get someone on the phone to answer a question, and have him answer that he remembered working with the early engineers on that late 2nd/early 3rd gen pistol model during it's development.

 

[Sevens]

You make excellent points as always and it's almost impossible to disagree, but it's very difficult to hear the cited examples of other "products" such as automobiles, computer software/hardware, etc. It's no secret that one of the traits of firearms and perhaps more so handguns specifically that draw us to them is the idea that with care (even normal, common usage and care), these are items that most of us fully expect to last WELL beyond our lives and maybe even the lives of our children.

Maybe we have no right to expect that... but so many of us have firearms from our Grandfathers and at this point, it's almost natural.

Can only speak for myself, but that idea is ever present to me. At the risk of a thread drift, it is one of the root causes of my pretty much abandoning motorcycling. I've logged in excess of 100k in the saddle but there's just no interest left in that for me because it seems like I grind money up in those toys but these handguns -- they'll be around forever!

 

[Fastbolt]

... Perhaps, but everybody deserves to finally be able to retire. ...

One guy casually commented to me that he was tired of working on guns for other folks, and now just wanted to have more time to shoot his own.

How you going to argue with that?

I've got to admit, having served as an armorer for a fair number of years, the shine is off and I've sort of tired of it. I'd usually sooner have some other armorer do some diagnosis, correction or repair job when there's a gun sitting at the bench waiting for me.

I'm about at the same point when it comes to directly working with folks as a firearms instructor. I'd just as soon help teach other less experienced instructors, and let them earn their pay working with folks.

I'll still pick & choose when to get involved, of course, like when I think it'll benefit both some particular shooter and the instructor working with him/her, but at some point it's easier to just go about my business and try to keep my own skills from fading into the abyss of age and entropy.

There's always going to be no shortage of new, lesser experienced folks just bound and determined to demand to know the wheel has to be round ... but that doesn't mean it has to be me who has to explain it to them.

Then again, there's those folks who think that the leaning process doesn't ever have to leave scars. The thing is, some things are seemingly best learned when sealed in place with a small scar. I've certainly acquired enough of my own.

It's apparently time to take my grand daughter over to the beach and let her play around in the sand, surf and tide pools. The sunshine and salt air will probably do my mood a world of good. Probably won't hurt to see all the women sunbathing and frolicking, either. Got a brand new Spyderco Salt I folder to carry/use in the salt water environment. Picnic snacks and we're good to go.

 

[ladder13]

Sad? Perhaps, but everybody deserves to finally be able to retire.........

Ya think?

 

[housedog]

Assuming you sent that as an email? I would bet you get a different response if you called CS, its worth a shot. My guess, they may not mess with the rail, but would be surprised if they didn't do trigger work anymore.

Yes, I initially sent it in via the form on the web site which lead to an email exchange. When I got that answer I then called CS at the 800 number and asked if they would at least take it for the trigger polishing thing and got the same answer. No, don't send it, we have nobody in the custom shop to work on that anymore.

I never broached it as a support/repair issue, just as a custom shop project. Not sure how that department is organized now.

 

[4506517]

With 20+ 3rd gennies in the stable, let me say I'm one of the line's biggest fans.

But at some point, you've got to expect they're not going to support them anymore.

Chevrolet doesn't still support the Chevelle or the Nova (my pop had an awesome '72 with I think a 302).

Windows doesn't support Internet Explorer 2.0 and Adobe doesn't support many versions of Acrobat Reader.

The nice thing about capitalism is that if there is a market for it, someone will fill the void. Perhaps a new generation of gunsmiths with new ideas will spring up. Just as an example, look at all the cool stuff BMCM can do to a 3rd gennie. I realize he is only a hobbyist, but I just use him as an example of the possible talent that's out there.

Like everyone here, I really wish the 3rd gennies would get produced again, but like an ex-girlfriend, S & W has moved on to other things. They're done with the 3rd generation, and there's not gonna be re-kindling of the flame.

I'm not surprised at S & W.......I'm surprised that folks here are surprised.

 

[BMCM]

Well Sir, you may consider me in the category of "Not Surprised"

Cheers
Bill

 

[TTSH]

Sad? Perhaps, but everybody deserves to finally be able to retire. What is truly sad is all that knowledge was either, not passed down to a new generation of craftsmen...

Absolutely agree. I guess my meaning wasn't initially clear enough.

 

[ladder13]

S&W can be bought for some $845 million, then we can do what we want with it. Scrap the M&P's, renew the 3 G's , and reap the huge profits. Of course we missed out when SafT hammer only paid 15 million for it some years ago.

I'll put up $100 to start the fund. Who's in to aquire Smith?

Nominations for CEO?

 

[turbo38gn]

I nominate 18dia ...... !!!!

 

[Dandecoteau]

Good thing I traded my 5906 for a glock.

 

[ladder13]

I nominate 18dia ...... !!!!

We need $$$$'s, lots.