Problems with Starline 380 brass

[Vortec MAX]

I have Starline brass in 9mm, 38 SPL, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, and 44 Magnum as well... and I have never had a problem with their brass either... until now.

I also did not have the buckling issue with the other brands of once fired 380 brass.

Mike

 

[picketpin]

Here is the solution I found that fixed my case buckling with .380's, I am really new to reloading them and had many problems with buckling or bulging the bases of the tiny cases. After switching from my .380 "M" die to by 9mm RCBS expander i crunched fewer cases and then I read somewhere that the actual seating depths of .380 bullets in not much more than .25"and the expander plug for a 9mm is much longer than that.. I polished the end of the expander plug after tapering it with coarse to fine grit w/d sand paper. So now there is less force on the case because of less area being expanded and also a very slick surface on the expander. Maybe this picture will help:

The M die on top is has a much longer area that expands the case compared to the lower modified RCBS expander which actually works. The M die is now doing duty as my 9mm expander and works fine in that role without buckling cases.
james

 

[Vortec MAX]

Thanks for the info. It looks like your RCBS expander is the older style without the "step." Is this the case?

Mike

 

[mr-mom]

I would second the previous suggestion that you tumble the new brass for a while in some old media. Had similar problems some years ago with their brass, and the tumbling solved the problem. Their quality is top notch.
Dave
SWCA #2778

 

[gregintenn]

Looks like a die problem; not a brass problem.

Not the solution you were probably looking for, but try a set of Lee dies and see if your problem goes away.

 

[sunnyd]

I have run into the same issues using the new RCBS step die in .380 in general, with various brass. IMO 380 brass is always finicky to work with, and I also think the new step die is finicky to work with. I seem to manage with adjusting the die to flare the case mouth to the minimum.

 

[venomballistics]

lube the mouth of the case. see if the forces won't take preference to expanding rather than buckling.

What I think is happening is that the cases are factory new. Theres no work hardening to the walls from a prior firing to force preference to expansion. do it with lube.

 

[picketpin]

Thanks for the info. It looks like your RCBS expander is the older style without the "step." Is this the case?

Mike

Mike, must be older (like me) as there is no step..

james

 

[ageingstudent]

My understanding is that Starline brass is SO clean that it increases friction to the point that problems develop. The fix is quite simple - just tumble in used tumbling media for an hour or so.

It works for me...

FWIW
Dale53

This...had some new Starline 45acp last year and it didn't buckle but it was sticky. I chamfered a few but got tired of that quickly and just threw them in the vibratory cleaner with some cob and cabelas polish for an hour. It worked great. Like Scooter I also polish brass after cleaning because it can be sticky when too clean. Even in a carbide die.

 

[pinto]

For what it's worth I had the same issue with 38 S&W cases.
Turned out the RCBS die was the culprit.

 

[Vortec MAX]

OK. So I followed two of the suggestions you all provided. I tumbled the cases before I sized/expanded them using corn cob treated with a 50/50 mix of Nu-Finish car polish and mineral spirits. They had a nice slick feel to them inside and out. I also polished the expander plug (see attachment below).

I am still getting the slight buckle in the cases. The bottom line is... I can't get the stepped portion of the expander into the cases without buckling them.

I have ordered a Redding brand expander die. When it arrives (it is on back-order), I will try it and report back.

Mike

 

[Magload]

I have not read all of this thread but have you tried calling Star-Line?

 

[Vortec MAX]

I have not read all of this thread but have you tried calling Star-Line?

No I haven't. I have tried two different lots that were made years apart with the same results. Which means they have been making their 380 brass this way for some time now.

Many of the posts above are adamant that the dies are at fault and not the brass. I really don't know what to think. If the Redding die does not fix the problem, I might let Starline know of the issue I am having.

Mike

 

[rwsmith]

As much as I like Starline....

Some of us have had real issues within the last year of it being thick and HARD with extremely tight primer pockets. So it COULD be the cases.

Starline was about the best there could be, but QC seems to have gone bad.

 

[M3Stuart]

I believe it's been said; you don't have the problem with once fired brass, but you do have it with the Starline. Have you been able to load any of the Starline, fire it, then try it again? Or do they all buckle?

 

[Vortec MAX]

I believe it's been said; you don't have the problem with once fired brass, but you do have it with the Starline. Have you been able to load any of the Starline, fire it, then try it again? Or do they all buckle?

They all buckle, but I have been able to minimize it by only pushing the "step" into the case just barely. It makes it a challenge to seat the bullet though. I used a LEE FCD after seating the bullet and the carbide sizing ring ironed out the slight bulges enough for them to function.

The batch that I ran through the tumbler and used the polished expander on were once fired. They looked perfect again after sizing, but they still buckled slightly the second time around.

Mike

 

[rwsmith]

Not this stuff....

My understanding is that Starline brass is SO clean that it increases friction to the point that problems develop. The fix is quite simple - just tumble in used tumbling media for an hour or so.

It works for me...

FWIW
Dale53

Glad it worked for you. For the .357 I had to use a fair amount of case lube with a carbide sizer and could barely get them sized with a LOT of effort. Then came the priming.

 

[gwpercle]

A little gizmo I like to use in handgun reloading is Lee's Universal Case Expander...now it says expander but what it does is put a gentle flare on the case mouth...it doesn't extend into the case to create the bulge shown in your photo (in my terminology, a case buckle is when it folds up or crumples into itself) . Its easy to adjust the flare, there is no step.
Actually if the round chambers , the bulge will not harm anything. Thicker walled brass shows this "bulge" compared with thinner walled brass. I have shot a gazillion 45 acp's that showed this bulge , military brass was notorious for this, with no harm done.
If they feed , fire and eject.. don't worry about it.\, it's OK.
Gary

 

[Oldshot]

Just a thought: Have you measured the case length? Max is .680. It just may be that yours are a hair longer and the correctly set expander die is going in far enough to bulge 'em. Good suggesztion to call Starline and find out what their min/max is for the .380 case. As you know .380 head spaces on the case mouth ( like a .45acp) so if they are too long you'll probably have problems chambering or ejecting them.

 

[lebomm]

The problem (as I see it) is that the thickening of the case wall begins higher, allowing the radius at the end of the exp. plug to bulge the case when the belling section enters. I had the same problem with .44 Russian cases, and solved it by grinding a taper onto the end of the plug to shorten the expanding length by about .060" or thereabouts. No problems since, and the plug still performs perfectly with .44 Special.
Hope this helps.

Larry