martybee
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Does anyone carry RN target ammo for SD and if so, why?
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Ball ammo for EDC?
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Florida J Frame
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There is no reason to. There are too many better choices available.
Dan Christopher
Member
I am sure there are some people who do, but as Florida J said there's no reason to.
The only cartridge I could see doing that with would be 45 ACP, but even at that there's no really good reason to do it.
The only cartridge I could see doing that with would be 45 ACP, but even at that there's no really good reason to do it.
Arik
Member
Nope. Better options and better performance with HP
If you go to NJ you'd better NOT be carrying hollow point ammo. From what I can find out it's still illegal, even for a retired LEO w/ LEOSA certification. As I said in another thread I'm taking the path of least resistance. I don't want to get arrested, even if I'm ultimately found to be in the right, and spend all that money to prove it.
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MJFlores
Member
I used to carry FMJ when I carried a .380. Where the .380 fails is often time with penetration, so I opted to that. It's important to test the rounds as some ball ammo / FMJ is extremely soft lead that deforms and stops on impact. The Speer ammo I carried would blow through a 2X4 easily so, I felt good with it. A properly performing hollow point will be desirable in every case as long as it provided penetration needed to get to vital organs despite of angle, clothing, etc. A better caliber with decent hollow point ammo the best way to go.
okiegtrider
Member
I sometimes carry ball ammo while edging the yard. Between showers, but not when my gun is locked in the truck.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
The gold standard for self defense is absolute reliability. Accuracy is important as well, as is point of impact at point of aim. Everything else is optional.
If your pistol handles the ammo you select for defensive use (i.e.: feeds, fires, extracts, ejects 100% of the time) it is worth considering. If not forget about it.
If your defensive ammo consistently shoots to point of aim at 50 feet or so it is worth considering. If not forget about it.
Good quality ball ammo that is 100% reliable in your pistol beats anything that is less than 100%.
Most pistols with fixed sights are regulated at the factory for common ammunition, usually ball ammo of the most common weights (.45ACP = 230FMJ, .40 S&W = 180FMJ, 9mm = 115FMJ). When used with different bullet weights at different velocities you can always expect point of impact to be different.
I carry a full size .45 pistol. I know it is 100% reliable with Federal Match 230FMJ, and I know that it will shoot to point of aim every time. Every magazine I use has been fully tested in that specific pistol. I use the same holster at the same carry position every day. No questions, no doubts, no worries.
YMMV
If your pistol handles the ammo you select for defensive use (i.e.: feeds, fires, extracts, ejects 100% of the time) it is worth considering. If not forget about it.
If your defensive ammo consistently shoots to point of aim at 50 feet or so it is worth considering. If not forget about it.
Good quality ball ammo that is 100% reliable in your pistol beats anything that is less than 100%.
Most pistols with fixed sights are regulated at the factory for common ammunition, usually ball ammo of the most common weights (.45ACP = 230FMJ, .40 S&W = 180FMJ, 9mm = 115FMJ). When used with different bullet weights at different velocities you can always expect point of impact to be different.
I carry a full size .45 pistol. I know it is 100% reliable with Federal Match 230FMJ, and I know that it will shoot to point of aim every time. Every magazine I use has been fully tested in that specific pistol. I use the same holster at the same carry position every day. No questions, no doubts, no worries.
YMMV
Absolutely not.There's really no justifiable reason to carry ball ammo and it's frankly rather irresponsible to do so IMO. If you live in NJ, EFMJ is still an option. I think even rounds like corbon power ball and Hornady critical defense may be as well, but I'm not positively certain about those. It's amazing that so many anti-gun law makers simply can't understand that they are actually putting more innocent lives at risk with such ridiculous restrictions.
The only time I have used ball ammo was when I carried a small caliber (.32 auto) and wanted to maximize penetration.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Every time this topic comes up (which is several times every year) someone will make the "irresponsible" argument against ball ammo. Since the conversation has gone toward "irresponsible" I will offer my opinions about some practices that I believe are truly irresponsible:
1. Carrying a pistol loaded with ammunition that you have not thoroughly tested in that pistol. Lots and lots of folks have "range ammo" and "carry ammo", and they practice with the range ammo and carry the "good stuff", frequently with no idea how or if it will function in their guns. That is irresponsible.
2. Carrying a revolver loaded with high velocity, high performance ammo, but practicing with standard velocity, standard performance ammo (example: .357 magnum revolver with all practice and range work done with .38 Special). Differences between point of aim and point of impact can always be measured in multiples of inches at 7 or 10, or and frequently a foot or more at 25 or 50 yards. That is irresponsible.
Unlike some of the "experts", or the self-appointed and self-anointed "gun gurus", or even the smug armchair warriors posting on the internet, I have actually carried and used handguns in real combat. Two tours in Vietnam (US Army Airborne Infantry) and 24 years as a cop. I have done the job with a pistol, with a revolver, and with many other small arms, and I have seen the real results (rather than the speculation and prognostication of the blogs and forums). I have done the shooting and seen the results, and I have been shot and lived with the results. I have seen people struggling to clear a stoppage or to reload under fire.
In a semi-auto pistol there is absolutely nothing that will achieve the degree of reliability that ball ammo will provide. Soft point and hollow point ammunition may expand, and it may not expand; it may stop in the target or it may continue on and do further damage; it may feed and function in your pistol, or it may not (in fact, it might work hundreds of times in a row, then in a fight Mr. Murphy could apply his law at the first shot).
I am sure that most members offering opinions here are doing so in good faith. But I am also sure that a lot of people will simply parrot what they have heard and read.
I encourage everyone to think carefully about their equipment and training. For me, I stand by my point that reliability is the gold standard, and everything else is secondary.
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I carry flat-point FMJ in my Kel-Tec .380. Practice with and carry the same round, I worry about the expansion of an HP out of such a short tube.
Everything else I carry gets HPs
Everything else I carry gets HPs
I prefer to carry a 9 with jhp's, but when I carry a 32 or 380 it is with ball. I want reliability and penetration.
No disrespect intended, but it sounds like you're stuck in the past. Your line of reasoning comes across like it came right out if 1975. Things have changed and progressed. The weapons are better, the ammunition is superior and the training tactics have improved. That's life, it's that way with almost everything, especially in the realm of technology and weapons. Even many Gunsite Cooperites have figured that out and abandoned much of the outdated methods and gear. Being a Vietnam vet or a Cop doesn't somehow bestow you with some profound knowledge unattainable to anyone without your particular background. Half of the men in my family are ex-military, the other are Cops and I've taught DT and ECQ FoF to LEO's for the past 25 years, but so what. Truth is truth no matter the mouth that speaks it.
How many P.D.'s issue 1911's or ball ammo today? Reliability is critical, but so is stopping the threat as quickly as possible and modern quality Hollow-point ammunition will accomplish that objective a heck of a lot better and faster than any FMJ without the added risks to innocent bystanders. Just about everyone has figured this out by now and accepts it to be true based on demonstrable facts and stats, so maybe consider listening to what nearly every single instructor and legitimate authority on the subject has to say.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
There is an old saying that bears repeating now and then:
Those who think they know everything can be particularly annoying to those of us who have bothered to learn a little bit.
People who make blanket statements intended to cover every eventuality, and then attempt to back those statements up with vague references to experts, just don't seem capable of understanding the fundamental elements of what I have tried to say in this discussion.
I have not claimed that ball ammo is somehow superior in every respect to any other type. I have not claimed that it is best for every situation or use. All I have said is that 100% reliability is the gold standard, everything else is secondary, and that everyone should thoroughly test every piece of equipment before relying upon it for self defense. I have also pointed out the dangers of training with one type of ammunition and carrying another type for defensive use.
If that causes some folks to get their tighty whities twisted into a wad, well so be it. If not a heretic I am certainly a well-armed infidel.
I'll just stay here, stuck in the past, with my outdated full-size 1911 pistol loaded up with Federal Match ammo, shooting at practice what I carry every day for personal defense. Everyone else can do what they wish, including blindly following bad examples of some who claim to know everything there is to know and refuse to acknowledge one simple fact (which is that there is no ammunition of any type that will consistently provide the same level of reliability as the ammunition for which a particular handgun was designed and built).
Best regards to all.
Those who think they know everything can be particularly annoying to those of us who have bothered to learn a little bit.
People who make blanket statements intended to cover every eventuality, and then attempt to back those statements up with vague references to experts, just don't seem capable of understanding the fundamental elements of what I have tried to say in this discussion.
I have not claimed that ball ammo is somehow superior in every respect to any other type. I have not claimed that it is best for every situation or use. All I have said is that 100% reliability is the gold standard, everything else is secondary, and that everyone should thoroughly test every piece of equipment before relying upon it for self defense. I have also pointed out the dangers of training with one type of ammunition and carrying another type for defensive use.
If that causes some folks to get their tighty whities twisted into a wad, well so be it. If not a heretic I am certainly a well-armed infidel.
I'll just stay here, stuck in the past, with my outdated full-size 1911 pistol loaded up with Federal Match ammo, shooting at practice what I carry every day for personal defense. Everyone else can do what they wish, including blindly following bad examples of some who claim to know everything there is to know and refuse to acknowledge one simple fact (which is that there is no ammunition of any type that will consistently provide the same level of reliability as the ammunition for which a particular handgun was designed and built).
Best regards to all.
okiegtrider
Member
Sunday afternoons around here can be pretty entertaining...
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Sunday afternoons around here can be pretty entertaining...
If you will share the popcorn I'll share the beer.
okiegtrider
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ColbyBruce
Member
I carry FMJ ammo in my Colt LW Commander, Walther PP, HK P7 PSP and BHP. I have one mag of HST and one of Gold Dots for the Glock 26 I am wearing now. I have several 9mms, and they tend to have different appetites.
Whitwabit
US Veteran
you said it best .. "I'll just stay here, stuck in the past" .. and are doing exactly what you accuse most others of doing .. "blindly following bad examples of some who claim to know everything" !
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