Official Police contact- What do you say?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Recording a cop is a sure way to lose any chance of discretion and a friendly warning. Nobody wants a camera pointed in their face.

And nobody has ever really thought through the body camera thing. First of all, I guarentee you I would never give a warning to somebody who committed an offense. The next guy who got arrested or ticketed would claim racial or gender bias.

Well, if you say that you are unable to exercise good judgment in discretion because you're being recorded I believe you. But understand that others can. The good men and women of law enforcement around here do very well with their dash cams running. Just a couple weeks ago one of Chattanooga's finest gave me a warning instead of a ticket. I doubt he's fretting about gender bias because I'm a man.

East Ridge Police (part of the greater Chattanooga area) just deployed 35 body cams earlier this year.
You really believe that no one has ever thought through the complexities of body cams? Only you, eh?

 

[ladder13]

re: bad cops. We want them to have their future freed up to seek employment in some other discipline.

Inmate (fill in the number) would suffice.

 

[kbm6893]

Well, if you say that you are unable to exercise good judgment in discretion because you're being recorded I believe you. But understand that others can. The good men and women of law enforcement around here do very well with their dash cams running. Just a couple weeks ago one of Chattanooga's finest gave me a warning instead of a ticket. I doubt he's fretting about gender bias because I'm a man.

East Ridge Police (part of the greater Chattanooga area) just deployed 35 body cams earlier this year.
You really believe that no one has ever thought through the complexities of body cams? Only you, eh?

35 whole body cams, huh? In a department that handles how many calls a day? How about 40,000 cops?

And why stop at cops? How about firefighters? Paramedics? Emergency room doctors? School teachers? Let's wire them all, right?

The body cam for cops movement is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to PC nonsense. Wanna wire them up? Fine. All I know is that 98% of the people I pulled over got a pass. I saved my tickets for the scumbags, not the guy trying not to be late for work. Do I want my Captain seeing me cut loose 98% of violators? Hell no. He has to answer to somebody, too mAnd that's something the champions of cameras don't think about.


Small town USA can do what they want. And I'm fully aware that body cams are eventually going to be normal. Just don't wish too hard for it. Because once a cops EVERY MOVE is recorded he's gonna follow the book, word for word. So driving 40 in a 30 because you overslept and don't want to get slammed at work is going to be an automatic ticket. Period.

And I get dash cams. No problem with them. You want the cop responding to your child's traffic fatality (God forbid) rolling video as your son takes his last breath? Big difference in rolling video from his car versus 8 inches away. Neither do I.

How about the family of the suicide victim? Or the raped woman? The molested child? Think they want to be on camera?

Such staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment here. And the 4th, too. Until a cop is videotaping everything in your home and car. Maybe uses the tape for a noise complaint to get a warrant for stolen property? Replays and enhances a video to zoom in on something he never would have seen with the naked eye? Not really the Plain View exception anymore, is it? You cool with that?

Who here wants to be videotaped in their own home?

 

[RSanch111]

Recording a cop is a sure way to lose any chance of discretion and a friendly warning. Nobody wants a camera pointed in their face.

I agree. If someone is implying: "You're doing something wrong" by pointing a camera at me on a simple traffic stop, I would not be inclined to give them a break. Why would I want to let them go feeling that they "intimidated" me into letting them go?

As far as body cams on cops and discretion: When I came on the job, it was no problem at all to give someone a ride home when they'd had too much to drink. In the following 30 years, the level for "under the influence" went from .10 to .08. MADD and other groups gained more and more influence to the point where although drunk driving (first offense) was a misdemeanor, it became virtually a "shall arrest" offense, much like domestic violence. "Sobriety Checkpoints" were validated by the Supreme Court. In effect, any discretion on the part of an arresting officer was lost, thanks in large part, to dash cams. Just the way it is.

Now introduce someone on a traffic stop who instead of giving you their license as required, shoves a phone in your face (and there are plenty of .22 pistols you can buy that look like phones...) and starts trying to bait you into showing your behind on camera for youtube and facebook.....

I'm glad I'm not pushing a uniform patrol car anymore.....

 

[Varangi]

The attitude you displayed was adversarial. That's ok, because that's what the relationship is. Unlike others, I don't pretend otherwise.


As I said, I avoid contact with the police by obeying the law and avoiding people, places, things and situations which make contact with the police likely. That means that you would be initiating contact with me, and probably for reasons not known to me. That being the case, I have as much interest in protecting myself as you do in protecting yourself. Recording the encounter goes a long way toward achieving that goal.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree- I'll refrain from getting into a pissing contest. I hope you're never put into a position that makes you challenge that moral compass of yours. I would hate to see you fall off that pedestal.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[cmort666]

Because once a cops EVERY MOVE is recorded he's gonna follow the book, word for word. So driving 40 in a 30 because you overslept and don't want to get slammed at work is going to be an automatic ticket. Period.

1. In some places that would be a vast improvement.
2. Some people think they're above the law. They're wrong.

 

[cmort666]

I hope you're never put into a position that makes you challenge that moral compass of yours.

People's moral compasses are challenged every day... providing they have one.

1. EVERYBODY is subject to the law and should obey it.
2. Like gunfights, the best police encounter is the one that didn't happen.
3. I avoid police contacts. The easiest way to do that is to obey the law.
4. The easiest way to avoid getting traffic tickets or getting arrested is to not break the law, not by doing things not required by law, or by discarding hard won rights.

Of course some people just don't feel right unless they feel like they're getting away with something or doling out favors to those who need to feel like they're getting away with something.

 

[kbm6893]

I've started setting up a cam to record any encounter should it occur. Pointed square at the drivers side window.

I guess you don't flash your badge and ask the cop for a break since "you're on the job" Cause I have never pulled over ONE fireman who didn't flash me his badge and ask for courtesy.

Do you legally park your car while at the firehouse?

If you're a firefighter in NYC, you deal with cops all the time. And no way are you taping them. Because you know he'd take offense and wouldn't give you a break.

And I always gave it. Cops don't write other cops or firefighters. At least I never did. I saved my tickets for scumbags, or those who gave me attitude. 98% of those I pulled over who were polite and cooperative got a break from me. I had better things to do than give a $150 ticket to the mother trying to get her kids to school by going 35 in a 30 or by making a right on red

 

[kbm6893]

1. In some places that would be a vast improvement.
2. Some people think they're above the law. They're wrong.

Oh please! You NEVER exceed the speed limit or commit some other minor vehicle infraction? NEVER committed a non criminal civil offense? Never jaywalked?

Getting rid of discretion that MOST cops exercise is gonna make enemies of the public and further divide cops and civilians. The ferguson police department was just found to be using tickets as revenue generating for the town and people went nuts.

If you're being recorded 100% of the time, you're gonna follow the letter of the rule book. Doing otherwise is evidence of you not doing your job. How are you going to explain to your captain that you give a break to 80% of the people you pull over?

 

[kbm6893]

People's moral compasses are challenged every day... providing they have one.

1. EVERYBODY is subject to the law and should obey it.
2. Like gunfights, the best police encounter is the one that didn't happen.
3. I avoid police contacts. The easiest way to do that is to obey the law.
4. The easiest way to avoid getting traffic tickets or getting arrested is to not break the law, not by doing things not required by law, or by discarding hard won rights.

Of course some people just don't feel right unless they feel like they're getting away with something or doling out favors to those who need to feel like they're getting away with something.

I can recall getting pulled over 4 times in the last 12 years. Most people live their whole lives without thinking about cops unless they see one in their rear new mirror. Most people have very little contact with police. Those who have such an animosity towards them usually have a reason.

The PA troopers went to SIGs lately. I started chatting with one at a gas station a few weeks ago. Told him I was surprised they didn't use Glocks. He was very friendly. Not at all unapproachable.

 

[cmort666]

If you're being recorded 100% of the time, you're gonna follow the letter of the rule book.

Good. That would be a big improvement in some places.

I expect the police to obey the law. I can hardly complain about being held to the same standard.

Of course some people don't want to be held to any standard.

I don't want "breaks". I want to be left alone. The easiest way to be left alone by police is to obey the law. If the police don't leave you alone when you are obeying the law, then they are themselves in violation and should face the consequences. Needless to say, there are people who don't like either side of that equation.

 

[cmort666]

I can recall getting pulled over 4 times in the last 12 years. Most people live their whole lives without thinking about cops unless they see one in their rear new mirror.

I've been pulled over fewer times in the last twelve years. But then I conduct myself in such a manner that there's no LAWFUL reason to pull me over.

Most people have very little contact with police.

I have the least contact with police that I can.

Those who have such an animosity towards them usually have a reason.

Most police on this forum seem to have no problem being recorded in a non-disruptive way. I would say that a cop who doesn't want to be recorded in the course of his public duties is doing something he doesn't want his superiors or the public to see.

The PA troopers went to SIGs lately. I started chatting with one at a gas station a few weeks ago. Told him I was surprised they didn't use Glocks. He was very friendly. Not at all unapproachable.

I didn't say either that YOU couldn't or shouldn't "approach" the police. I said I had no desire to, nor any desire to eschew reasonable measures to ensure that my rights are not violated.

I have consistently stated that I have no desire for contact with the police, and to that end try to ensure that I obey the law. That seems to irk you. It seems odd that somebody would be irked by another person admonishing EVERYONE to OBEY the law and to not expect "breaks" when they don't.

 

[kbm6893]

I've been pulled over fewer times in the last twelve years. But then I conduct myself in such a manner that there's no LAWFUL reason to pull me over.


I have the least contact with police that I can.


Most police on this forum seem to have no problem being recorded in a non-disruptive way. I would say that a cop who doesn't want to be recorded in the course of his public duties is doing something he doesn't want his superiors or the public to see.


I didn't say either that YOU couldn't or shouldn't "approach" the police. I said I had no desire to, nor any desire to eschew reasonable measures to ensure that my rights are not violated.

I have consistently stated that I have no desire for contact with the police, and to that end try to ensure that I obey the law. That seems to irk you. It seems odd that somebody would be irked by another person admonishing EVERYONE to OBEY the law and to not expect "breaks" when they don't.

It doesn't irk me. You don't like cops. Free country. Just saying there's a reason. For somebody who always obeys the law and rarely encounters them, you sure do think about them a lot.

And cameras are coming for cops to wear. Nothing gonna stop it. Just saying the people who are so for it haven't thought all the ramifications through. Do you want the inside of your home being recorded when the cops come in for a medical call? Or when they knock to show you a picture of a missing child? What happens to the footage? You have no expectation of privacy in public. But your home?




In those times that you got pulled over, did you demand the ticket? If you committed the offense, why should you get special treatment? Did the cop give you a break? Did you appreciate it?

 

[cmort666]

In those times that you got pulled over, did you demand the ticket?

I did what anybody with two braincells to rub together does. I kept my mouth shut to the greatest extent possible. I did tell one cop who insisted that I notify when not armed that I had no intention of doing so.

As I said, you seem irked that people would OBEY the law and encourage others to do so. You also seem truly baffled that some people are not part of "the system" and don't want to be.

I like to keep my life simple. Keeping the police out of it, really helps.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Do I want my Captain seeing me cut loose 98% of violators? Hell no.

If someone doesn't want their superiors to see or know what they do 98% of the time, a body cam sounds like what's needed.

 

[kbm6893]

If someone doesn't want their superiors to see or know what they do 98% of the time, a body cam sounds like what's needed.

What a joke!
If cops enforced EVERY law on the books, you'd be the first one calling them facists or some other nonsense.

And the 98% number was my decision in CAR STOPS, which accounted for maybe 30 minutes a tour, tops. Answering 20 radio runs in a tour don't leave alot of time to pull people over. So I'm OK with wasting 24 minutes a tour letting decent people go with a warning. I think of it as building community relations. Or should I write the Marine who rolled through a stop sign at 5 Am while he's trying to get to his reserve center? How about the grandmother who parked 14 inches from the curb? Should I write her too? They are committing infractions, aren't they?

I generally pulled over 8-10 people a tour, depending on time of year, of course. My sergeant would have ripped me a new one if I was doing a car stop while central was holding calls. So 45 a week get pulled over. All of them could have been written.So of those 45 people, maybe 5 get written. Often receiving multiple tickets. So my 30 tickets a month was a breeze. Leave the decent people alone and slam the resident lowlife that every cops is a scumbag. Of course, every now and then, I'd get an otherwise law abiding person, but clearly had an attitude. When they'd say "don't you have anything better to do?", I'd say, "actually, no. hey, the tint on your window looks pretty dark, too. Let me get my tint meter and we'll see if it is". So no break for him. he did the violation. So nothing unlawful about it.

Fireman sleep and eat a sizable portion of their tour. Ever been to a firehouse at 2 AM? Only ones up are the probies, whose job it is to wake the older guys IF the bell rings. But that's OK, right?

Only true cop haters have a problem with a cop cutting loose the majority of these he stops for non criminal offenses. I wrote 30 tickets a month on average. That's less than 2 a day. Why give one to the decent person just trying to get to work when I can give them to the moron blasting music and spinning his wheels?

And all the cop haters on this forum are mighty brave behind a keyboard. But I guarentee you they "yes sir, no sir, thank you sir" when the lights come on behind them.

 

[cmort666]

If cops enforced EVERY law on the books, you'd be the first one calling them facists or some other nonsense.

1. As has been abundantly demonstrated, police don't KNOW "every law on the books".
2. It would be wonderful if the police enforced ONLY laws that were on the books.
3. Enforcing "every law on the books" is a LOT better than "making it up as he goes along".

EVERYBODY should know what the rules are going in. They shouldn't have to guess.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

And the 98% number was my decision in CAR STOPS, which accounted for maybe 30 minutes a tour, tops.


I wrote 30 tickets a month on average. That's less than 2 a day.

You say you don't give tickets to 98% of the "car stops".
You have repeatedly said the same thing -- "All I know is that 98% of the people I pulled over got a pass."

You say you issue about 1-2 tickets per day average.

That would require about 50-100 car stops per day which you say takes about 30min total.

With public safety in mind, sounds like to me a body cam would be a very good idea to help gain perspective on what is actually going on during the day.

 

[ladder13]

EVERYBODY should know what the rules are going in. They shouldn't have to guess.

impossible in NY, the laws are designed to confuse the law abiding.

 

[Old TexMex]

You say you don't give tickets to 98% of the "car stops".
You have repeatedly said the same thing -- "All I know is that 98% of the people I pulled over got a pass."

You say you issue about 1-2 tickets per day average.

That would require about 50-100 car stops per day which you say takes about 30min total.

With public safety in mind, sounds like to me a body cam would be a very good idea to help gain perspective on what is actually going on during the day.

Prosecution rests, your Honor....