3rd Gen Magazines - Pre-Ban vs. Post-Ban

[BAM-BAM]

TTSH........ Can you bring them in from out of state ?...or

must they be already there?


and/or

Why not 1st concentrate on finding and getting some of the much older 14 round 9mm mags.... they are all well pre-94 (AFAIK).....they are for the most part 1st and 2nd gen mags.........by 94 all high cap Smith mags were 15 rds.

14 rds are high cap but not really really hi-cap ...... you can get? +2 spacers to use them in any third gen compact.....

 

[N4KVE]

Thank God I live in Florida. GARY

 

[TTSH]

Do what you think is best, but it sounds to me like somebody could take advantage of you and sell you pre-ban mags when they aren't. At a super inflated price, of course.

Happens many dozens (if not hundreds) of times at every single gun show we have. Some vendors do it knowingly... some out of ignorance.

Like I said, I've been zinged myself. Not on 3rd Gen magazines necessarily (who knows for sure?), but for certain on others. Had to dump them out of state fast at a big loss.

Welcome to life in moonbat Massachusetts.

 

[GaryS]

Yes, you can bring magazines in from anywhere. You can rebuild them too.

TTSH........ Can you bring them in from out of state ?...or

must they be already there?


and/or

Why not 1st concentrate on finding and getting some of the much older 14 round 9mm mags.... they are all well pre-94 (AFAIK).....they are for the most part 1st and 2nd gen mags.........by 94 all high cap Smith mags were 15 rds.

14 rds are high cap but not really really hi-cap ...... you can get? +2 spacers to use them in any third gen compact.....

 

[TTSH]

TTSH........ Can you bring them in from out of state ?...or

must they be already there?

and/or

Why not 1st concentrate on finding and getting some of the much older 14 round 9mm mags.... they are all well pre-94 (AFAIK).....they are for the most part 1st and 2nd gen mags.........by 94 all high cap Smith mags were 15 rds.

14 rds are high cap but not really really hi-cap ...... you can get? +2 spacers to use them in any third gen compact.....

Short answer: We can import pre-ban "Hi-Caps" as long as the vendor does not block all magazine sales into MA as a matter of policy. You will typically have to send a copy of your LTC-A to the vendor to show you are allowed to possess them.

Longer answer: Certain loony moonbat bureaucrats in state government, at the direction of our prior governor, tried to put forward a "reinterpretation" of the law as written to say that pre-ban magazines must have been legally possessed within the state prior to the 1994 Federal AWB in order to be legal. No sane person who reads the actual wording of the law would come to that interpretation... but moonbat gun-grabbers never give up.

The truth is that it was a little too late for the moonbats to have successfully floated that "reinterpretation" idea. There is no practical way for them to know when anyone bought or brought their pre-bans into this state.

Future case law or our state supreme court could try again to change the prevailing interpretation, which had its roots in the Federal AWB, but that ship has sailed in terms of having any real effect on anything now after so many years.

 

[kbm6893]

TTSH........ Can you bring them in from out of state ?...or

must they be already there?


and/or

Why not 1st concentrate on finding and getting some of the much older 14 round 9mm mags.... they are all well pre-94 (AFAIK).....they are for the most part 1st and 2nd gen mags.........by 94 all high cap Smith mags were 15 rds.

14 rds are high cap but not really really hi-cap ...... you can get? +2 spacers to use them in any third gen compact.....

Buying an orange follower turns a pre ban 14 round mag into a 15 round mag.

 

[BAM-BAM]

What are pre-ban 9mm 59/459 hi-cap magazines going for in Mass. ?

 

[10ring]

In direct response to the OP question, I don't think there is any reliable way to tell age with Smith mags. Follower color gives a clue but that is all, and it isn't obvious to a casual observer. Now, what follows might just generate some nasty responses but I'm going to suggest it anyway. Please understand I think these magazine limit laws are stupid and I do not support them in anyway, but I also think that the "value" of large magazines for most of us is overstated.

If I was going to be somewhere where anything over 10 rounds MIGHT get me in trouble with the law depending on some officer's understanding of the law and understanding of the age of the magazine, followed by some prosecutor's take on the same things, I would get rid of those mags and buy 10-round mags (or replace the spring and follower to allow only 10 rounds) to replace them.

In my mind, if you can't handle a situation with 10 round magazines, then the problem isn't likely to be solved by having a few more rounds in the mags.

But that's just me. I feel entirely adequately armed with a single stack 9mm, 40 or 45 and a spare magazine. In my years in law enforcement I have met plenty of cops and prosecutors and judges that knew what the trigger was for and which end the bullet came out of, but that was about it. I also met more than a few cops that were decidedly "anti-gun."

I would not want to try and have the pre-ban / post-ban magazine discussion with them when I was looking at a possible arrest.

Just my thoughts, and they are probably worth what you have paid for them.

 

[TTSH]

What are pre-ban 9mm 59/459 hi-cap magazines going for in Mass. ?

It varies by the show (the only sane/economical place to buy) and local supply. I've seen as low as 3 for $100 ($39 each) after some guy dumped several dozen 5900-series used ones on one popular MA-based vendor. I've also seen asking prices as high as $65.00 for nice, clean original Model 59 magazines. I won't tell you what I paid for my original condition S&W pre-ban 20-rounder. Yeah, I'm sure I over-paid.

Bottom line? It varies a lot. The trick is to buy when the supply is good and the prices are low... and avoid buying during dry spells if you can possibly avoid it.

 

[TTSH]

If I was going to be somewhere where anything over 10 rounds MIGHT get me in trouble with the law depending on some officer's understanding of the law and understanding of the age of the magazine, followed by some prosecutor's take on the same things, I would get rid of those mags and buy 10-round mags (or replace the spring and follower to allow only 10 rounds) to replace them.

You are not alone. Many people I respect have voiced similar opinions. They have no faith in the reasonableness or the ability of cops to know the difference between a pre-ban magazine and a post-ban magazine... something even experts often can't agree on. They are saying that the only way to be 100% safe against an unknowing or anti-gun cop is to stay at 10-rounds or fewer.

There have been stories in the news that suggest the cops involved arrest and charge with illegal Hi-Caps as a matter of course and let others figure it out. It's a scary thing. Even if completely innocent, the cost and consequences of being arrested and on Page 1 of the local rag are too much to even contemplate for a lot of folks. I get that. A year or two later when cleared or given a CWOF, the story appears buried in small print beneath the classifieds. By that time, the damage has already been done.

But the truth is that this topic, at least for me, has nothing to do with carrying. I rarely carry anyway and in those few instances when I do, it's usually pocket carry of a small single-stack pistol or J-frame revolver. And it's always concealed carry. Regardless, I'm not quite ready yet to fully capitulate to the gun-grabbers... and until I do, being able to tell the difference between a pre-ban and a post-ban 3rd Gen magazine will remain important to me.

 

[GaryS]

Prices vary widely. I tend to avoid stores in MA, so mine are private party sales, out of state LGS sales, and gun shows.

My general rule of thumb is that I won't pay more than $25.00 for a magazine. Which means that I have to be patient and willing to wait.

I've bought some here on the forum without problems. The burden of complying with the law falls on the MA resident, not the person who sells the magazine to him.

Which doesn't stop some large on line vendors from not selling to MA residents.

I bought some 6906 magazines from a New Hampshire seller who was at a MA gun show. One of the 10 or so he had in his bin was marked LE/military only. I pointed that out to him and he took it out of the bin and commented that he didn't mean to bring any of those with him.

When I go to a large sporting goods store in ME, I always stop buy the miscellaneous bin. Often they have trade in magazines in there. Some of them have been LE/military marked, so I don't buy them. However, residents of ME, NH, VT who go there don't have to worry about what markings are on the magazines. Nor does the store ask to see ID when I buy standard capacity magazines.

What are pre-ban 9mm 59/459 hi-cap magazines going for in Mass. ?

 

[TTSH]

The burden of complying with the law falls on the MA resident, not the person who sells the magazine to him.

Which doesn't stop some large on line vendors from not selling to MA residents.

True and true.

 

[84Carrera]

You can't carry your registered and still legally owned 11-round magazines??? You're joking... right?

Oh heavens no!! Can keep them in the house or on my property but that's it. So I keep the 11 rounder loaded for home defense and when I carry I have to use the 10 rounder.
Hi capacity mags can not be brought into the state either period. No if's and's or but's. If you have a job transfer to the fine state of Ct. you cannot bring in hi capacity mags, ARs etc.

 

[TTSH]

Oh heavens no!! Can keep them in the house or on my property but that's it. So I keep the 11 rounder loaded for home defense and when I carry I have to use the 10 rounder.

Okay, I had read the new law a little bit differently than that, but you're on the ground there and I'm not. What a shame.

Hi capacity mags can not be brought into the state either period. No if's and's or but's. If you have a job transfer to the fine state of Ct. you cannot bring in hi capacity mags, ARs etc.

That much I was fully aware of since a possible move into Northern Connecticut (wife's family lives there) had been on and off our radar screen from time to time prior to the new law. The new law ended that discussion real quick.

 

[84Carrera]

Okay, I had read the new law a little bit differently than that, but you're on the ground there and I'm not. What a shame.

That is the way I read the new laws. The problem is LE doesn't even now. Can you carry an 11 only loaded with 10 and be legal? I had a local town LEO on my softball team and he didn't know. Had a Statey behind me on the highway waiting for my car to be towed, (mechanical issue), and we discussed the laws, HE didn't know. Unfrigginbelievable. Not their faults, this dumbazz states fault for not even knowing. So I'm not risking being a felon because of laws that are or are not even laws. Geez...

 

[TTSH]

That is the way I read the new laws. The problem is LE doesn't even now. Can you carry an 11 only loaded with 10 and be legal? I had a local town LEO on my softball team and he didn't know. Had a Statey behind me on the highway waiting for my car to be towed, (mechanical issue), and we discussed the laws, HE didn't know. Unfrigginbelievable. Not their faults, this dumbazz states fault for not even knowing. So I'm not risking being a felon because of laws that are or are not even laws. Geez...

Yeah, I had thought you CT folks could carry your legal, registered 11 just as long as you only had 10 rounds in it. Kind of like when NY figured out that there were no 7 round magazines for a lot of handguns and said that you could use a 10 provided you only put 7 rounds in it.

Such total lunatic moonbat stupidity.

Anyway, a lot of folks in Massachusetts use a term to describe exactly what you are talking about... "Massprudence."

It means: "Forget what the misguided, ill-conceived, poorly worded law says or might appear to allow. Here is what you should really do if you want to play it safe and stay out of trouble."

Perhaps you need a similar term too: "Connecticutprudence"

 

[cmyorke]

So I hate to dig up an older thread but I have a couple of questions.

I recently purchased a 6906 from a LGS. It came with one magazine and it is clearly marked Restricted: Export, law enforcement and gov/t use only.
I happen to live in TN and I know our laws are not nearly as strict when it comes to things like this. I have been looking around to purchase a magazine or two and just trying to figure out what if any difference there is between pre-ban and post-ban. I see them on gunbroker and armslist and it seems there are 12rd pre-ban and 12rd post-ban. In real life with no laws to restrict which one you carry what does it matter if pre-ban or post-ban if they are all 12rd?

I am going to do some more research to make sure it doesnt matter which we have here in TN but I am going to guess it will not. If it does I need to get some soon to be able to carry

 

[Sevens]

I will also guess that in a state like Tenn, it simply won't matter.

That magazines that are marked LE and such as you describe were marked so to indicate that they were produced somewhere in the 10-year span between '94-'04.

During those years, it was unlawful for regular folks to possess one so marked. But Federally speaking (and having nothing to do with crazy State specific or municipal laws), it was never against the law to own a high-cap magazine produced before 1994. (it was unlawful to alter a ban-era 10rd limited magazine.

I believe for you, in Tenn, this is nothing more than interesting historical discussion.

 

[cmyorke]

I will also guess that in a state like Tenn, it simply won't matter.

That magazines that are marked LE and such as you describe were marked so to indicate that they were produced somewhere in the 10-year span between '94-'04.

During those years, it was unlawful for regular folks to possess one so marked. But Federally speaking (and having nothing to do with crazy State specific or municipal laws), it was never against the law to own a high-cap magazine produced before 1994. (it was unlawful to alter a ban-era 10rd limited magazine.

I believe for you, in Tenn, this is nothing more than interesting historical discussion.

yeah that is what I am coming to figure out.

SO if they are pre-ban or post-ban they would not have those markings on them? If manufactured during the ban they would? in the long run they operate the exact same.

 

[Sevens]

I would say yes, that is likely the case. There was no impetus before the AWB to mark any mags, and likewise, no reason to mark them after the sunset of the ban. Mags produced in that era by law were so marked.

Unmarked (pre-ban) high-caps became a valuable commodity over night. They were still legal to own and use, and still legal to sell! Simply illegal to manufacture or alter.

Senseless, pointless... and no suprise to any of us.