gwpercle
Member
I wish I could put 30 shots into one hole, I would be on the Olympic Shooting team for sure !
Being a good shot you could fail to get your CCL !!
- Thread starter Whitwabit
- Start date
cmort666
Member
Not at typical qualification distances with a High Standard Citation, an S&W Model 41 or an Izh 35.
Depending upon the distance, it shouldn't be a problem with a decent M1911.
Here in Illinois we shoot 30 rounds for qualifying 10 at 3 yards , 10 at 7yards , and 10 at 10 yards ..
one person shot a 22 LR for qualifying and I watched as he had a pretty tight group .. his score was 26 .. and I am positive all 30 shots hit his target in the black .. everyone else spread their shots all over the target
.. everyone in the class I took (18 of us) passed the shooting qualification .. lowest score was 24 .. and think that lady just missed the target completely as her shots were spread over the target ... 70% is the passing grade or 21 shots of 30 in the black ..
So yes it is possible to put enough shots through another hole and thus fail the class and there is no retake .. one chance .. or take the course again .. but those would be very good shooters to do that .. but very possible for some ..
Yes it is BS but that's the law ..
one person shot a 22 LR for qualifying and I watched as he had a pretty tight group .. his score was 26 .. and I am positive all 30 shots hit his target in the black .. everyone else spread their shots all over the target
.. everyone in the class I took (18 of us) passed the shooting qualification .. lowest score was 24 .. and think that lady just missed the target completely as her shots were spread over the target ... 70% is the passing grade or 21 shots of 30 in the black ..
So yes it is possible to put enough shots through another hole and thus fail the class and there is no retake .. one chance .. or take the course again .. but those would be very good shooters to do that .. but very possible for some ..
Yes it is BS but that's the law ..
Fox4506
Member
This happened a lot when I was in the Border Patrol. The instructors would count them as all hits if you had one ragged hole...as they should. Good marksmanship should be rewarded.
I have no doubt that many shooters could do this on a CCW qual...as most of the CCW qualifications are much easier than a law enforcement qualification course. I put all of mine except for one bullet in one ragged hole during the NC qual. I was shooting a 40c.
Any decent firearms instructor knows that if the shooter makes a ragged hole then most likely all of the bullets went though it.
Fox
I have no doubt that many shooters could do this on a CCW qual...as most of the CCW qualifications are much easier than a law enforcement qualification course. I put all of mine except for one bullet in one ragged hole during the NC qual. I was shooting a 40c.
Any decent firearms instructor knows that if the shooter makes a ragged hole then most likely all of the bullets went though it.
Fox
shotgun693
Member
George Patton failed to get a Gold Medal at the Olympics because he put two rounds through the same hole. They actually changed the target to keep that from happening again.
The other day I went to check out a new "Indoor" range which is a good deal here in Nevada in the winter..........
$100 for the class that is two half day sessions and I also asked about "Wind" in the target area and was advised that there should be none all the out to the 25 yard limit.
This will hold up for FIVE years and for any weapon........ I do not need to qualify with a 38 or a 9mm, either one will give me full access to my weapons in five surrounding states....
per the guy behind the counter.
One thing sweet............ is they allow you to use your own ammo but you need to but their targets. They don't want "People targets" that may cause problems and give them a bad image.
Life is good.
$100 for the class that is two half day sessions and I also asked about "Wind" in the target area and was advised that there should be none all the out to the 25 yard limit.
This will hold up for FIVE years and for any weapon........ I do not need to qualify with a 38 or a 9mm, either one will give me full access to my weapons in five surrounding states....
per the guy behind the counter.
One thing sweet............ is they allow you to use your own ammo but you need to but their targets. They don't want "People targets" that may cause problems and give them a bad image.
Life is good.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
That's very funny. Political correctness st the range. The most popular target at my range is the "Islamic Terrorist".
EPWrangler
Member
Last time I had to qualify for s Texas CHL there was one big hole for 50 rounds.
Ranger514
Member
Back in the day, our agency shot duty carry, full-load 125 grain .357 defensive rounds during our 60-round day light qualification courses and 30-round reduced light qualifications. I consistently made ragged holes in the center ring of a Trans Star target with my 66, as did many others. One day at the range, I found a couple of stray rounds in the outer scoring rings on my target. I was scratching my head in puzzlement when the joker next to me started laughing. He'd fired the errant rounds at my target just to see my reaction. We had both passed easily, despite his practical joke.
As for the full load 125 grain issue, I never experienced any problems, other than some limited flame cutting with my Mod. 66. I still own and carry that snubby, but nowadays I load it with .38 Special +P defensive rounds, and save the 125 grain .357 loads for my 686. As I understand it, the flat bottom of the forcing cone is the source of possible weaknesses in the Mod.19 and Mod. 66.
I've personally witnessed only one cracked forcing cone in either model, and that involved a older Mod.19 firing 125 grain defensive loads that a fellow officer was using. When the forcing cone cracked, his 19 started showering me with lead fragments. I took superficial wounds in the face on my left cheek, and one on the left forearm. The officer firing the 19 was totally unaware of what had happened until I stopped the course of fire and made the Range Master investigate the matter.
Stick to the slower, heavier .357 ammo or lighter .38 Specials and you should be ok. Enjoy your Mod. 19. That's a great handgun.
As for the full load 125 grain issue, I never experienced any problems, other than some limited flame cutting with my Mod. 66. I still own and carry that snubby, but nowadays I load it with .38 Special +P defensive rounds, and save the 125 grain .357 loads for my 686. As I understand it, the flat bottom of the forcing cone is the source of possible weaknesses in the Mod.19 and Mod. 66.
I've personally witnessed only one cracked forcing cone in either model, and that involved a older Mod.19 firing 125 grain defensive loads that a fellow officer was using. When the forcing cone cracked, his 19 started showering me with lead fragments. I took superficial wounds in the face on my left cheek, and one on the left forearm. The officer firing the 19 was totally unaware of what had happened until I stopped the course of fire and made the Range Master investigate the matter.
Stick to the slower, heavier .357 ammo or lighter .38 Specials and you should be ok. Enjoy your Mod. 19. That's a great handgun.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
This happened to me every two years when I had to shoot to requalify for my carry permit. The instructors watched me shoot and always assumed all the shots he couldn't count were in the big hole. Any instructor who doesn't do that is being a jerk....maybe trying for another fee by making a shooter shoot again.
I really think someone's BSing here.
I really think someone's BSing here.
When I qualified with the M-16 way back when, mi shot a ragged hole in the target. Smart alik instructor gave me the same story. I told him to count the misses then and subtract that from 90, the number of scored shots fired. Seeing as there were no errant holes, I quailed as expert.
Don't ask me to do that with a handgun though. No so good there.
Don't ask me to do that with a handgun though. No so good there.
jtcarm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,422
- Reaction score
- 4,317
50 rounds in one hole?? That would be quite a feat. Was the shooter Jerry Miculek? I think the instructor was pulling your leg..
Close enough range, not too hard shooting a big bullet with a full wadcutter.
I don't have CHL but I've been told by an instructor here in TX a blind man could qualify.
jtcarm
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 4,422
- Reaction score
- 4,317
50 rounds in one hole?? That would be quite a feat. Was the shooter Jerry Miculek? I think the instructor was pulling your leg..
Close enough range, not too hard shooting a big bullet with a full wadcutter.
I don't have CHL but I've been told by an instructor here in TX a blind man could qualify.
2ndAmendmentNut
Member
Several years ago my father took his CC course in TX. At the time there was a score and I believe the max was 250. My dad shot 50rds from his 1911 and made one large hole about the size of a playing card. Only problem was the guy next to him was so bad he accidentally shot my dad's target.
No it's not the law. There's nothing in IL law or the CCW ad rules that says there has to be 21 separate holes. If you shoot a ragged hole with all 30 rds there's nothing in the law that says that's not a passing score.
In your scenario all that says is the instructor really doesn't know all that much about scoring targets.
I shot many years bullseye matches and combat and pistol team in the military. Anyone who scored targets like you described wouldn't be doing range work very long.
That's one problem with IL's CCW program. To be an instructor all a person has to do is pay the $300 and submit whatever teaching course they want to teach. Nothing says they have to know diddly squat about range scoring or even putting together a lesson plan. There have been some really sorry instructors approved who have no business teaching anyone anything about shooting. They've read all the grocery store gun rags, bought a few guns themselves, but they're totally inept at teaching a quality course. Before taking anyone as an instructor remember one thing - if you're involved in a shooting situation that person you hired as an instructor to qualify you is going to be on the stand in your civil case. In the OP's case that instructor is definitely not a person you want on your side when you're facing a multi-million dollar suit.
That sounds like the kind of instructor who says if you're in a shooting situation that you're better off spreading your shots around to cause more damage. It just shows that instructor is a computer commando who has never been in anything more dangerous in his life than falling out of his high chair and landing on his head when he was a baby.
Last edited:
Same here...........I taught the class here in SC from 1996 to 2006......Qualified over 350 people.......Had to "count" the holes too............BUT___ We were walking the line and watching each person shoot.........We Knew.....Where the bullets were going.
